Due to overcrowding at South County Secondary School, school boundaries for Hayfield Secondary, Lake Braddock Secondary and South County Secondary Schools are once more in question. All affected communities are invited to two important town meetings -- one is this evening, Tuesday, October 10, and the next is on Wednesday, November 1, at 7:30 p.m., both at South County Secondary School's auditorium.
What’s happening to change it?
The Fairfax County School Board is reviewing at least two possible boundary scenarios: making a traditional boundary adjustment based on geography; or eliminating the middle school from South County Secondary and dividing the middle school population (projected at more than 1,000 students) between Hayfield Secondary and Lake Braddock Secondary Schools based on available seats at each school.
What are the desired outcomes?
- Hayfield Secondary School (HSS) should remain under capacity if boundaries are redrawn to allow for future growth. HSS was well over capacity for well over a decade!
- HSS should remain a balanced, diverse and desirable community school, with only elementary schools in the immediately surrounding neighborhoods feeding the school.
- Students should stay at HSS for all six years of middle and high school. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are secondary schools with carefully planned and separate spaces for middle school and high school populations. A large middle school population and a smaller high school population would be detrimental to the educational quality on both sides of the building.
- Transportation routes and bus ride time MUST be considered during the boundary-setting process.
- The school board MUST consider consequences from DoD’s Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process –– with a potential influx of 20,000 workers at Fort Belvoir over the next four years.
What about these town meetings?
Please plan to attend this evening's (Tuesday, October 10) meeting, and be sure to mark your calendar for the follow-up meeting on Wednesday, November 1. Each meeting begins at 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium of South County Secondary School, located at 8501 Silverbrook Rd., Lorton, VA 22079. The meetings will feature group discussions and breakout sessions so the school board can gather data and info from the affected communities. As parents, residents and voters, you are strongly encouraged to attend and prove to the school board that you have a vested interest in the educational needs of your children and the welfare of your community. That’s why it’s important to be there!
2,729 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 2729 Newer› Newest»I heard the SB elementary is overcrowded. True? Are there LB feeder schools nearby that could take a portion of Silverbrook? That would reduce the impact of split feeder and reduce overcrowding.
8:56, you are right about option 1, whoever came up with this idea was not thinking about Hayfield and Lake Braddock. I hope option 1 is thrown out and only 2A and 2B considered. You are correct, this is not just a South County issue. It involves three schools and all must be equally considered.
Halley Elementary is under capacity but the Barrington folks feel it is not politically feasible to send their children there. Why? With the Project Excel money it receives every year and all day Kindergarten what is the problem? Would they rather have their children attend an elementary school that has eight 5th grade classes?
Halley is UC and Silverbrook is OC. Both schools are both in the Crosspointe subdivision. Halley is not slated to be redistricted out of SC. It seems logical that Silverbrook residents would be pushing to get redistricted into Halley so that they could stay at SC and then ALL of the new Silverbrook area could go to Lake Braddock.
Win: Reduce the student population at Silverbrook.
Win: Increase the use of empty seats at Halley.
Win: K-6 kids would stay in their immediate area for elementary school.
Win: Increase the use of empty seats at Lake Braddock.
Win: Silverbrook would remain a single feeder.
Remember to reject any new options that do not meet the goals and objectives set forth by the schoolboard when they ordered Staff to do this study.
They must stay on task and in focus.
I love this blog. It is an intelligent, informative, multi-sided ,thought provoking dialogue.
The Post blog was mean spirited, obviously censored to Silverbrook ideals, and redundant in thought.
Thanks for this open avenue!
In answer to comments about Halley.
Why should Silverbrook have to go to Halley just to stay in South County? There would be no South County school at all if it wasn't for the hard work of Silverbrook area residents.
Why should we be punished and threatened with getting redistricted to a mediocre school? Look at the school profiles on the FCPS website. The demographics are horrible at Halley as compared to Silverbrook.
Obviously this is a proHayfield blog, only concerned about how their area will be affected.
I think the SB made a mistake by not addressing these boundary changes at the elementary school level from the start. When questioned, they did not give any real answers, except to say that they were only making boundary changes at the middle and high school levels.
To 9:37 -- Wouldn't you rather see a middle school instead of a new elementary school in your area. Utilize the undercapacity at Halley and maybe your middle school will be built sooner. Also, the demographics from your community may not make Halley so horrible. Aren't you forgetting we live in a very demographic world these days.
Would Silverbook parents prefer stay in Silverbrook Elem and go to LBSS or go to Halley and go to SCSS?
Would the Silverbrook kids and parents help improve the quality of Halley? Does Halley need improvement?
Sangster is UC as well. Why not move some of the OC SB to Sangster? That would help with the split feeder issue as well.
9:37
Did I see you drive by the other day in your pick up truck with the White power sticker and the confederate flag hanging in the back window.
I guess Hayfield's demographics did not meet to your approval as well. Send your kids back to private school so that you don't have to expose them to the real world we live in. Maybe if you were a bit more tolerant we wouldn't have as many problems as we do in this country.
Yes there are several bloggers here concerned with how Hayfield will be affected, but Hayfield has been a very diverse school and continues to thrive as a diverse school, maybe your kids would benefit from similar diversity in the schools they attend. As a Hayfield parent I want to see more kids (not too many) come back to Hayfield weather they are White, Black, purple or orange, all are welcome here, and all are loved here.
9:47
A new elementary is terribly necessary. The excess students from Silverbrook and Lorton Station alone, could fill a new elementary school. The elementary school needs to be built before the middle school.
I like Option 1 because going to 2 larger middle schools will give all of the H, LB and SC ms'ers the competitive edge they need to get the top spots in academics and ECs once they get to 9th grade. I have no problem with SC area middle schoolers going to a more distant school for years if it means attending a closer
school for four grades.
9:37 - calling Halley a mediocre school does not win you any support. Perhaps 2B would be the best solution after all. Maybe it would be better to send portions of Silverbrook to LB. If you stay at SCSS, you will always act like you own the place, which you have no right to do. Nobody owns a public school. Diversity is a good thing, your attitudes are not.
Should read "for 2 (TWO) years"
To 9:55 After witnessing the horrible rivalry the other night at the SC football game against Hayfield I don't think it is in the best interest of the rising 7th & 8th graders to attend either Hayfield or LB. If it were a separate builing I don't have a problem with that but being in a secondary school is not good for the kids. Area high schools should have healthy rivalries not the mean spirited, foul language, etc. that went on the other night. It reminded me of Hayfield VS. TC so many moons ago.
9:47
Option #1 is dead. No community support, no School board support, and all the principals hate it. It creates problems far worse than overcrowding at SCSS. I will be disappointed (not surporised) if F&P even brings it up tonight. The only options that have any support at all are 2A and 2B -- and they have very little.
9:55 ^^^
2B is the way to go.
2B is good, but it creates a split feeder unecessarily. Move some of SB to Halley and then send all of SB to LBSS. That way there will be no split feeder and there will be room for growth at SCSS.
2B also corrects a split feeder - Gunston, and makes Lorton Station split feeder a more even split (at present LS splits off a small portion to Hayfield.) While 2B creates a split-feeder at Silverbrook, it does put the SCSS families closest to LB at LB. Putting some of Silverbrook at Halley is also a good idea.
The School Board should use options 2(n), but modify it. Sending Lorton Station and Mason Neck to Hayfield, and using empty seat at that school first. Lake Braddock may not have enough seats for the additional students yet. Putting off sending kids to Lake Braddock, until the renovation has been cleared and letting us enjoy the school, like Hayfield did, for a while.
The 80 kids from Mason Neck make no difference to the South County numbers.
Is that 80 kids per grade?
11:43 You have a point, but SB elementary is overcrowded and needs some relief. Some of them could go to Sangster and eventually to LB. I don't think those numbers would have much impact on the LBSS and SCSS, but it would help some and help SB Elem significantly.
80 total
12:02, then sending you to Hayfield will not have much impact on that school, and South County will get some relief.
80 kids would be about 3 trailers wouldn't it? or is it more complicated than that?
80 kids over 4 grades is not that many. 12:05 I'm not Mason Neck.
12:09, every little bit helps!
Those 80 Mason Neck kids would be much better off at Hayfield, than in overcrowded conditions at SCSS.
Those 80 kids did not cause the overcrowding. Every little bit does help. Facilities and planning screwed up by their inaccurate numbers and opening a junior class to make parents from SC happy did. I'm no city planner but sitting at the first round of boundary meeting I could even tell that the numbers the county presented wrong.
Maybe 2B would sell better if F&P took the part of Silverbrook Elem on the other side of Silverbrook Road.
to 11/01/2006 9:37 AM etc
From Hollington Place at the back of Barrington
to South County:
Total Est. Time: 8 minutes Total Est. Distance: 3.45 miles
to Lake Braddock:
Total Est. Time: 15 minutes Total Est. Distance: 7.28 miles
Beaver POnd in lower Lake Braddock attendance area:
to South County:
Total Est. Time: 12 minutes Total Est. Distance: 6.33 miles
to Lake Braddock :
Total Est. Time: 18 minutes Total Est. Distance: 9.61 miles
Oak Hollow in South Oaks Run:
to South County:
Total Est. Time: 7 minutes Total Est. Distance: 3.29 miles
to Lake Braddock:
Total Est. Time: 13 minutes Total Est. Distance: 6.28 miles
Sugarland area of Herndon:
to Langley:
Total Est. Time: 28 minutes Total Est. Distance: 12.51 miles
to South Lakes:
Total Est. Time: 16 minutes Total Est. Distance: 7.29 miles
to Herndon:
Total Est. Time: 5 minutes Total Est. Distance: 2.46 miles
If going to LB only adds about 7 minutes to the bus for Silverbrook kids, then 2B is it! 15 minutes on a bus is nothing - very easy morning ride.
12:19 PM, the time and mile you have for SRO is not correct. The Bus stop is at OAKOVER ST and is less than 2.5 miles from south county.
I think I have the solution.
First Option 1 has no support from most parents, school board and educators, so I will make the assumption that Option 1 is off the table.
That leaves options 2a and 2b. One of the stated goals for this entire study was too leave all the schools under capacity. Well 2a and 2b leave SCSS at capicity. If they did a hybrid of 2a and 2b, and sent Newington Forest to LBSS plus sent a smaller portion of the Silverbrook Elementary boundry to LBSS that would get SCSS under capicity. I would propose that the area of Silverbrook split off would be the closest to LBSS and that area could by defined by the neighborhoods North of Silverbrook Rd., and West of Lake Mercer Park. In other words the communities of Barrington, South Run Oaks, and the Woods at South Run. Frankly I would explore sending those areas to the under utilized Sangser Elementary school, relieving crowded conditions at Silverbrook. Since Sangster feed LBSS all the kids would go together to 7th grade and all the kids at Silverbrook would go to SCSS. An added benefit would be that the Crosspointe section north of Silverbrook Rd. (Liz's section) would be intact with the rest of Crosspointe in attending SCSS. Look if people futher away west of RT 123 in Fairfax Station can manage to get to LBSS why can the folks closer to LBSS in Barrington and South Run do the same?
What do you think?
Go ahead and nominate me for SB, I think I deserve it!
Hey- I would like our bus to stay on next year and we have to find a way to get across Huntsman and battle massive traffic infront of our immersions school on the only 2 exit routes in our neighborhood of 2000 homes.
Our route is 13 minutes long and the route takes 4 miles and 70 kids safely to school.This year.
WHERE IS OUR BUS GOING NEXT YEAR?
Crestwood Elementary parents lost their bus and have to walk without SIDEWALKS!
You get one that goes under 4 miles? Dont start that argument- alot of us will gladly take up against it...
Besides, you can probably afford to buy junior his first BMW for his 16th bday.Forget the bus
1:04 makes lots of sense. Officially the SB community will reject it, but it might gain enough unofficial support.
From 12:19 PM
These were not busstops. They are simple mapquests from specific streets. It does take time to gt to the bus stop for suburban developments.
Here are some more:
park a bit further away than the burro farm:
to South County:
Total Est. Time: 16 minutes Total Est. Distance: 7.99 miles
to Hayfield:
Total Est. Time: 20 minutes Total Est. Distance: 11.79 miles
to Mount Vernon:
Total Est. Time: 23 minutes Total Est. Distance: 14.00 miles
County property - 126 acres of vacant land at 9835 GUNSTON RD
to South County:
Total Est. Time: 6 minutes Total Est. Distance: 2.63 miles
to Hayfield:
Total Est. Time: 10 minutes Total Est. Distance: 6.43 miles
to Mount Vernon:
Total Est. Time: 14 minutes Total Est. Distance: 8.64 miles
1:04, Would you leave that finger that sticks out of NF with NF or move it over to SB. That is kind of an Admin move, but it cleans up the silly stuff a bit.
11/01/2006 1:04 PM
makes sense but might be too many for LB. I posted here yesterday(?) about specific developments. The elementary boundaries are a mess so you can't just go per school. As for Crestwood and the bus - at least one school bard member busses kids to another school which could be walkers IMHO to a different school. If there aren't sidewaks, they get a bus in VA. There are kids with a bus whose homes are adjacent to a school. My kid used to ride a GTC bus with about 12-15 kids.
NF is a bad move to LB geographically since it has neighbrhoods that would be impacted by Laurel Hill. Moving western Silverbrook is very clean.
Timber Ridge and Triple Ridge should go to Halley and SC. The non-Halley Crosspointe, Barrington and South Run Oaks should attend Silverbrook and Lake Braddock.
Where will the Laural Hill elem be located? What pyramid should it be in? What elem schools will it draw its children from?
Think about where Laurel Hill is located. Obviously it will be in SC and take kids from Silverbrook, Lorton Station and Gunston.
1:25
I take that as a vote for 1:04 for the SB.
1:28
Sure you could move the finger that goes to Newington Forest over to SB. Just send them left on Southrun Rd. Or you can swing them up and around to Saratoga ES. I suspect it would not be a large number of kids involved in such a small area.
Do I have your vote?
1:33
Don't bog me down with numbers and facts here, I am on a roll,
Vote for 1:04!
If you listen to the Silverbrook community, LBSS does not have the room now for option 2b even when Tistadt says they do. At one time that school had 4500 students Before the renovation! So numbers and facts have no place in this discussion, this is politics!
2:40 You have mangaged to upset NF, SB, as well as the Gunston-Mason Neck area. You have my vote, yours, and if you are married maybe another. You need more than 3 votes to win.
2:07
you are right about Laurel Hill, I think it is needed. I wonder if they could stick a few more rooms and hallways on the school and put some middle schoolers in.
Option 1:04. Let's make copies and pass them out tonight!
Maybe Laurel Hill could be K-7?
2:46
You are right, but look at it this way it is 3 more votes than I had before I woke up this morning. Oh I forgot to mention I want to run for an at large seat. I just can't waste this brilliant mind this small corner of the county. I need a campaign manager to help me take this countywide. Any one want to volunteer?
2:48
your right.
I can see it now, breakout rooms tonight to discuss
"OPTION 1:04"
Option 1:04 is not an option! Try again!
Laurel Hill K-7 and SCSS 8-12?
I like option 1:04. Would have to see the Lake Braddock numbers, but it has merit. It should be e-mailed to the school board.
You have to be kidding! Option 1:04 is not an option!
I just looked at the CIP and capacity lists on fcps. It may be facetious but plan 1:04 is actually pretty good with a couple of minor modifications. The Silverbrookers need to be sent to undercapacity Halley. Sangster in Orange Hunt Estates is undercapacity but the other school (Orange Hunt Elementary) that is also in Orange Hunt Estates is overcapacity.
So 1:04 v.2 would be 1/4 of Silverbrook to Halley and SC. 3/4 of Silverbrook stays at Silverbrook and goes to LB. Orange Hunt gets rid of the overcapacity students and they come to Sangster. OH and the West Springfield kids of Sangster continue at West Springfield. The Fairfax Station kids of Sangster continue at LB.
Remember it is not politically feasible to send the Barrington Community to Halley.
It would be best if we worked out the details of option 1:04 over some cigars in an undisclosed location while planning the SB campaign.
Orange Hunt and WSHS are not involved in this study. The SB has specifically stated the objectives, goals and those schools it is studying.
Don't put other schools into this mess. We wont fall prey to it this time.
The focus is the overcrowding at SCSS. The solution will be found in LBSS and Hayfield.Surplus seats to the tune of $120 million taxpayer BUCKS.
I can see it now. Instead of seeing 3:16 in the football stands it will be 1:04!
3:15 Refer to 2:45. Let's not confuse the issue with rules, objectives and goals.
Sangster is not an option either. They are looking at middleschoolers, this is an elementary school.
You are stretching it so thin, the support you may have at other schools and other areas is dwindling as you drag them in.
3:07
I like you thinking but your taking option 1:04 down the slippery slope of "lets do a countywide boundry study". Now any good politician (like 1:04)knows that you don't want to bite off more then you can politically swallow. If 1:04 (and his option 1:04) has any chance for election to the School board he can't piss off more voters then he already has. Lets leave that up to Stork, Centers et all.
1:04 without the Elementary school changes for now. Let F&P do a series of "Admin changes" over the next few years to fix that issue.
To borrow a phrase from the politically elite of Fairfax Station: repeat the mantra!!!
Stick to the Option 2B. More of Lorton Station and all of Gunston to Hayfield. All of Silverbrook to LB.
3:18
1:04 here, your right lets leave Sangster out of this. Besides with the new Laurel Hill Elementary school coming on board I assume Silverbrook will get some relief. Besides that was only a side issue, lets call it a bonus solution for another school or title it option 1:04 sub "a".
The mission statement for Option 1:04 is "All Schools, All Under capicity, No ping pong ball students" Vote OPTION 1:04!
The CIP used to have contiguous groupings where you could see what was open along with totals. That mysteriously disappeared. I'd like to see a spreadsheet for the whole county. Meanwhile, doesn't some of SB's capacity come from a mdular which doesn't increase the core? If anyone developes another option, you need to look at the core's and Chevaliers's memo to Linda Smyth on Fairlee whre he delves into the core as well as that community school thing for elementary schools that FCPS paid to have done for Graham Rd and Devonshire.
3:15
Lets not get carried away, I have no pretense in passing option 1:04 as another verse in the bible. Talk about pissing off people!
3:32
Interesting, Where can we find that memo?
Orange Hunt has German Immersion. How many are inbondary and out? Of the out of boundary where do they come from?
What are the FRPM and ESOL now at Halley? Would it qualify for full day K without Hagel Circle?
There'a alot of unknowns that they want to keep unknown at many schools in this county.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/providence/PDFFiles/FairleeStudySchools.pdf
the graham rd cmmunity schools is on fcps under sb under reports
I know some of you are kidding, but I went up and looked at 1:04 and he may be on to something.
3:44
1:04 here,
All kidding aside, I came up with this idea at the first boundary meetings what 3 years ago now? Anyway I inquired with facility and planning about the numbers and was told by one underling that I may be on to something. I sent a lengthy email to Brad Center which in his defense was probably one of thousands of emails. Anyway I thought it had merit then and has merit now.
Can I put you down as a vote for Option 1:04
3:14,
Cigars, smoky back rooms, do we need to invite someone with muscle in on this meeting?
We just need to let liz b know that if she really plans to run for Belter's seat in 07 she better be backing 2B
4:20
You mean backing 1:04 don't you? Besides it keeps her home at SCSS. Brilliant plan on Mr. 1:04's part to gain her political support for his plan 1:04
Any news on what options will be presented tonight? Does anyone have an advance copy? Is 1:04 an option? If Option #1 officially dead?
one is dead. LBSS is dead.
I just got back. Silverbrook has clearly paid off someone.
Still on the table--
Option 1: All MS'ers out
Option 3: All of LS and Gunston to Hayfield. This would leave SCSS at 113.4% overcapacity and LB at 81.7% undercapacity. Hayfield would be in the upper 90s. F&P "claims" that these areas would be let back in when the ms is built but personally I don't thing the FFX STA crowd will let them back in.
I guess Option 104 didn't get in to Gary in time.
Does anyone believe that 2A and 2B are still on the table? I think I liked the Hayfield portion of Option 2 better than Option 3.
Will MN be sucessful in staying at SCSS like they did the last time?
I thinik if the people who write on this blog are writing to their SB and newspaper and getting their NEIGHBORS to do the same, we can get 2B to be considered by the Board. The Crosspointers and Barrington folks are very vocal and pushy but we can be as well.
Last meeting in October, the Silverbrookers were saying no option was acceptable and that everyone should stay in SCSS. Now that there's an Option 3 that wouldn't adversely affect them but only those "on the other side of I-95", Silverbrook was in wholehearted support of removing some SC area kids permanently.
The excess seats at both Hayfield AND Lake Braddock need to be utilized before a new middle school is funded. It is not fair that only the eastern boundaries of the current SC area and Hayfield are used to correct the problem.
Options 2A and 2B removed students from both sides of SCSS and made it fair. Option 3 is just totally giving the Silverbrookers everything they want. From the start they only wanted Silverbrook, Halley and Newington Forest elementary schools at SC. They were furious about the inclusion of Lorton Station, and have complained about them being at SC since the school opened. I can't believe the school board will give them everything they want. I also can't believe they would bring Hayfield back to around 100% capacity. This leaves no room for BRAC. It is wrong that Lake Braddock will be left at only 81% capacity. Perhaps it is the Silverbrook and Lake Braddock people getting everything they want and Hayfield is being "used" to solve everyone's problems.
How about Option 3 with a couple of minor adjustments:
- Leave Lorton Station at SCSS until phase II
- Allow rising 8 and 9 to stay at SCSS
- Allow all kids in SC to pupil place to HF or LB until graduation
7:05 am
Go back and look at the numbers. Hayfield 95%. Option 3 is fair. It allows Lake Braddock to finish with it's renovation, and allows the SB to see how much room is available at that school. At that point, it will send students to that school. Let us enjoy LB for a while!
On paper this option 3 with its two phases looks great. But comeon who are we kidding. If a new middle school is NOT built and the projections for Lake Braddock are correct with even more capacity in 2008 who here believes another boundary study is going to result in kids being redistricted back into South County and other kids being moved from South County to an under utilized Lake Braddock.
I think if option 3 goes noone in the SCSS district will be willing to leave and go to LBSS. There is a track record here, and they always get their way.
LBSS will be just like Mount Vernon, another beautifully renovated school enjoyed by few school board protected students. Once again, after years of overcrowding Hayfield gets dumped on and forgotten as the school noone wants. Hey LBSS roll those old trailers on over here, were going to need them.
Option 3 has potential, but I think that something like 7:29 mentioned would be better. Moving all 7-8-9, all of Gunston, and all of LS is too much too fast. Let's take advantage of the pause that phase I allows for to ease into this. 3-400 students (mostly MS) would be a big shock on the Hayfield MS next year and probably take it beyond capacity. We need to break out the MS and HS numbers to see.
Why are the numbers never broken out for Hayfield's middle school and High School?
The school board, Brad Center and Facilities and planning could care less about Hayfield. It has always been a dumping ground.
The Hayfield community needs to break out the MS and HS numbers and present them if it is that important to them.
Silverbrook did that and "proved" they would not fit in LB. HF can do the same thing. Gary will never do it, he has made it clear that it doesn't matter to him and he doesn't think it should matter to anyone.
Don't be so hard on Brad -- yet.
F&P follows the path of least resistance and Hayfield is less resistant.
Option 1 is the best way to get that middle school funded and built. It shows F&P we are willing to cooperate by having our middle schoolers redistricted out until a ms is built. Everybody's boundaries stay the same. It allows the MOST room at all 3 schools for BRAC growth.
Option #1 is bad for everyone. It has so School Board support, little community support, bad for educations bad for discipline, bad for High School programs, and the principals hate it (for good reason). The MS students WILL NOT FIT in Hayfield or Lake Braddock so the option isn't even viable. This option is a complete disastor and does not warrant any further discussion. Drop it already.
7:05
All I heard from the LBSS folks last night that the capicity numbers are wrong, the capicity numbers are wrong. PROVE IT! If option 3 goes through as presented last night, LBSS is not touched and is it 81% capacity. The communities at Lake Braddock teamed up with Silverbrook to defeat the plan to use available space at Lake Braddock while throwing even more kids back into Hayfield which will once again be on the brink of overcrowding. Hayfield is smack in the middle of the potential effects of BRAC and all that brings. If there is any school in which the county should "monitor" its the attendence at Hayfield not Lake Braddock. Burke and Lake Braddock is built out. Where are you going to put more people. We experience just as much "roll over" of older folks moving out here as you folks there, plus we are still adding housing. With Option 3 putting Hayfield at 95% the leaves very little room for error in reaching the capicity limits and puts Hayfield over the goal of no more then 90-93% capacity as desired by Brad Center. LBSS at 81% has plenty of wiggle room. Option 3 is workable but a shift of 3 to 5 percent from Hayfield to Lake Braddock should be done, to allow for projection errors and the unknowns of the future. That would put LBSS at 84 to 86% capacity, still plenty room to "enjoy" the renovations. The numbers are hitting you over the head, LBSS attendence is going down and will continue to go down over the next 5 years. LBSS needs to take students from SCSS to ease the crowding. When does SCSS get to "enjoy" that new school?
Don't be fooled! The SCSS community leaders want a MS for Halley (w/o Hagel Circle), Newington Forest, and Silverbrook. The others are just along for the ride for now.
7:56
How bout this to get the MS built. Since option 3 leaves SCSS still over capacity, how bout kickiing out less kids from SCSS and going to 118 percent. Another 5% over capicity requiring more modular classroom may also get the MS built, plus allow Hayfield to absorb future numbers that are surely coming to its district.
LB did not have to prove it. The Silverbrook community did that for us. At the SB meeting they had someone do a great powerpoint presentation "proving" that LB was already at capacity and could not take any more in. The story was quite compelling and it worked to get rid of 2A and 2B. However, the same holds true for Option #1 so it is effectively dead in the water also.
So Hayfield -- you get Option #3!
8:15
Your right, we all know what they want deep down, but noone is going to stand up and say it, and noone from Hagel Circle and other less influential neighborhoods are standing up to be heard. Where is Jesse Jackson when you need him?
> Leave Lorton Station at SCSS until phase II
> Allow rising 8 and 9 to stay at SCSS
There is no one for Jesse to extort $$ from here.
10/27/2006 4:38 PM
Option 3 was pretty close
Y'all keep claiming how detrimental it is for the secondary schools to have middle schoolers pull out after 8th grade. This ALREADY happens at Lake Braddock anyway. Lake Braddock is a GT Center. There are lots of kids who come to Lake Braddock for the GT Center education in 7th and 8th grade and then go back to their base secondary school or high school. NOT A BIG DEAL.
Silverbrook did not convince Facilities and Planning, They are still saying that LBSS has capacity but are willing to throw out the reasonable plans 2a and 2b because LB and Silverbrook went biserk! I saw that Powerpoint presentation and later Tistadt said in so many words that the numbers are bunk as did Gary last night. If the county wants to do business based on numbers pulled out of the air by citizens with an agenda, then I guess I better get busy on my own capacity numbers. Hey who needs to be an architect, I can figure this out for myself!
8:31
we are talking about a much larger population then GT. We are looking at a couple hundred kids with no roots or connection to Hayfield and to make matters worse, they would be at a school that has already turned into very passionate rivals in such as short time. I see trouble in the halls of Hayfield if Option one is picked.
I think the rivalry would decrease if 7th and 8th graders all went to Hayfield and Lake Braddock and then were divided among H, LB, and SC. With families invested in either LB/SC or H/SC, the nonsense that has been going on simply wouldn't be tolerated. Simply by being at H or LB, parents and kids will get involved and become part of the H or LB community if for no better reason to ensure THEIR kid has a good experience.
Option 1 shows no cooperation with FCPS and FX County as a whole. It results in extra busses, unnecessary operating fund expenses, future increased debt service, site based instructional imbalances, unnecessary bond expenditures, fiscal irresponsibility, etc.
Lake Braddock could permanently absorb some students at the HS level but not as many as Chevalier was putting there for 2A and 2B. You can't lok at LB numbrs without examining that GT center which is now projected to be very large by FCPS standards. In other parts of the county, base school students come first but not for Silverbrook which could easily have portions permanently assigned to LB. Moreover, the Sangster to LB GTC has space so that is not a capacity problem.
The LB capacity imbalance from middle to secondary is caused by the out of boundary students from the GTC center. Extrapolating numbers from FCPS statistical reports show that LB gets about 44 kids from the Lorton Station GTC per grade level. That's 88 kids that reduce Lake Braddock's regular ed capacity which much be as low as 33 for MS yet 232 for HS. Removing Lorton Station GTC makes LB open currently at 121 ms and 232 hs. It could get even 30 pr grade level on avg from Silverbrook thereby reducing SC by 60 ms and 120 hs.
[This is also a problem with Whitman 1000/500 and Mount Vernon 2550/638. Working off those numbers Whitman is short 275 seats howver FCPS can call kids GT or set up some program and bus them where they have space.]
We have room for a GT center at Hayfield as maybe some other HS have - perhaps Mount Vernon?. If the GT center was moved out of LB there would be some room for more students from SC.
8:46
HF and LB just went through years of that. The SC community was part of the HF and LB schools! As soon as SC was scheduled for opening they were not longer willing to be invested in the old school. I don't blame them for that. One has to decide where to invest their volunteer time and energy and you spend where it will most benefit you and your family. They did not and will not invest in HF and LB during those two years nor can you expect them too. It has proven to be a failure. We do not have to do it again just to be sure.
from 11/02/2006 8:48 AM
How many kids are sent out of Hayfield now for grades 7 and 8 GTC? Setting up a middle school GTC is being done at Jackson and it is not the sort of endeavor the SB went through when it did Kilmer. It is a change in bus routes with maybe an algebra in gr 7 and a teacher for gr 8 in case anyone takes geometry. Since Hayfield HS has geometry it's OK. Then even little Fairfax Station geniuses could do algebra 2 in grade 8 with a teacher. As far as I'm concerned Lake Braddock and Tessie Wilson lost their legitimate claim to that portion of their GTC. I shouldn't have to pay to bus kids over to Lake Braddock from any Hayfield current or proposed attendance area.
This boundary study was supposed to relieve overcrowding at SCSS. Now it is turning into a study on how to make the Silverbrook/Lake Braddock community happy at the expense of Hayfield. Not only do the Silverbrookers get to "hand-pick" the communities going to SCSS, the school board is also setting up a nice little plan for them to get their middle school, while Lake Braddock can enjoy their nice renovations in an under-capacity school. Lorton Station was thrown a "we will try to include you later" bone, while Hayfield is basically being told that BRAC will have no effect on their community. Right! The Hayfield community really needs to get vocal on this one.
In Option 3 Phase 2 suboption 2, it says
"If a new middle school
-eliminates the need for boundary change to Lake braddock Secondary School
-requires additional boundary change to restore South County Secondary Students sent to Hayfield in Phase 1"
Who is kidding whom. There is no way that the Silverbrook people will ever "let" more Hayfielders back into SC. Last night, I heard an awful lot of snide comments about the OTHER side of I-95 and Lorton Station in general.
This affects everyone in this county since we all have to pay for it. The at-large school board members should be acting as brakes on those representing specific magisterial districts. I guess many will vote for a middle school as a trade -off for porky projects that would benefit some of their vocal constituents.
Leaving LBSS off the table allows for a win-win in the polictical arena and that is the focus, dear neighbors.
SB gets to avoid conflict with "influence and power"(AKA Crosspoint/Barrington), appeases LBSS families and PTSA, pushes the hard decisions to a newly elected '08 Board to consider filling LBSS with border schools closer to LBSS.
To wait for a MS is bologna.To send kids out of the area would be permanent and there is no need for a middleschool then..
Border schools like Robinson and Woodson? One thing that did make sense was the need for a west to east transition of students. The presentation was pretty convincing with utilization percentages.
I'm a bit confused on the Lorton communities that are being considered to come back to Hayfield. Would the Williamsburg Square and Hagel Circle kids be coming back to Hayfield making Halley a split feeder also?
West to east transition was never an objective of this study. I am sure it is something that the Silverbrook/Halley/NF parents pushed at their meeting with the SB along with their LBSS capicity numbers.
9:49 No, Halley would remain. Williamsburg Square and Hagel Circle would stay at SC.
9:49 No, Halley would remain. Williamsburg Square and Hagel Circle would stay at SC.
Sorry, I hit enter 2x!
Not a problem 9:54. Thanks for the answer. It is hard to read the handouts and determine where some of these communities are.
Part of the Silverbrook desire for Option 3 is to keep SC OC so that they can STILL claim the need for a middle school. For them Option 3 is a great option. It gets rid of the riffraff on the wrong side of the tracks, they get to also punish Mason Neck who with their Whoppin 80 kids at SC have caused the ENTIRE SC OC issue.
The SB really needs to send Silverbrook to LB to relieve some of the burden of the SC OC. Hayfield should not be shouldering this alone.
Hayfield has always been the dumping ground. I propose a pyramid/cluster change and be removed from South County.
9:57 - very true. It is sad that the SB is too weak to stand up to Silverbrook. Option 3 leaves SCSS at 113% capacity. If study 2A or 2B did that, there would be a huge outcry from the Silverbrook community. However, they like option 3 because it removes the neighborhoods they don’t want and gives them a legitimate reason to build a middle school. Fairfax County taxpayers should be outraged. BTW, if they do build the school, I am sure they will have their "Lake Braddock" style numbers ready to prove the SB that there is no room for Lorton Station and Mason Neck. The last objective will then be to remove the Hagel Circle island.
Hagel Circle will never be removed from South County. The School Board will see to that. They were moved to Halley, because Lorton Staion did not want them at that school!
I don't believe the school board will see to anything before they clear it with Silverbrook.
Exploring Option One
What impact would removing middle schoolers from South County have on Lake Braddock, Hayfield Secondary schools?
By Amber Healy
October 25, 2006
Some parents reading through the possible boundary changes for South County, Lake Braddock and Hayfield Secondary Schools may not believe their eyes.
On the page that details Option One, demographics for each school are listed in terms of population and the percentage of students eligible for free and reduced lunches or English for Speakers of Other Language classes. In those two categories, South County shows a zero percentage for both ESOL and free and reduced lunch programs. It would appear, at first glance, that the numbers referred to the entire school.
“It’s obvious that can’t be right,” said Dean Tistadt, assistant superintendent of facilities and transportation.
He gave a simple explanation for the numbers: the zeros are the right number because in Option One, no middle school students would be at South County, and the numbers on that particular page are only based on that part of the student enrollment, not the school as a whole.
“Logic would suggest that taking the middle schoolers out of South County would not change the demographics of the school because the students would be coming from the same areas as the current boundary,” Tistadt said.
However, adding students to Hayfield and Lake Braddock would slightly raise the ESOL and free and reduced lunch numbers at those schools. If Option One is approved, Hayfield would see a 0.6 percent rise in ESOL eligibility, from 33.2 percent to 33.8 percent, and a 1.3 percent increase in free and reduced lunches, from 22.9 percent to 24.6 percent. At Lake Braddock, the percentages are actually reduced in both categories, lowering from 26.8 percent to 23.4 percent for ESOL classes and dropping the number of free and reduced lunch-eligible students from 13.2 percent to 12.1 percent.
“Those numbers are still based on our five-year projection numbers,” Tistadt said.
Certain benefits come about by removing an estimated 1,150 students from South County to Lake Braddock and Hayfield, said Gary Chevalier, chair of the school system’s Office of Facilities Planning.
“This option doesn’t move anyone who has already started at South County,” Chevalier said. “We would be moving the rising seventh grade class to the other schools. This option keeps everyone together, they’ll all come back to go to high school at South County.”
IN THE BIGGER PICTURE, Chevalier said the students would go to their regular elementary schools, then go to Hayfield or Lake Braddock for middle school before returning to South County.
“If we do nothing, South County will be at about 3,200 students next year,” Chevalier said. “We can take a school that was built to accommodate 2,500 or 2,600 students and make it work with trailers and other options, but there’s no room for growth if we start with a school that’s already overcrowded.”
By removing students from South County and turning it into a high school, Chevalier said it would leave some room in case an unforeseen increase occurs in students attending the school.
Plus, taking middle schoolers out of South County is a change that would be fully in place after just two years, while the other two options would take three or more years to be phased in, he said.
However, Chevalier admitted that splitting up the middle school would create split feeders for Hayfield and Lake Braddock, a situation that does not exist at other secondary school in the county.
A total of 650 students from Newington Forest, part of the Silverbrook Elementary boundary west of Hooes Road and parts of Halley Elementary west of Hooes and Furnace Roads would be moved to Lake Braddock under Option One, Chevalier said. Close to 500 students would be added to Hayfield from anywhere east of Hooes Road, from the Laurel Hill area, Lorton Station and Mason Neck Elementary schools.
“You can expect a certain amount of error from the projections, but if each of these schools start out below capacity, there shouldn’t be any problems at any of the schools if populations increase a little,” Chevalier said.
School Board member Dan Storck (Mount Vernon) said he hasn’t formed an opinion yet over which option he’d favor for this study.
“On the pro side, it allows everyone in the existing boundary to continue to go to high school there,” said Storck, of Option One. “On the con side, you’ll be pulling students out of their local school and making them to go a secondary school for two years. The kids will have a group of friends from elementary school, another from middle school and then another from high school.”
If the recommendation from Chevalier and Tistadt’s office were presented now, Storck said he isn’t sure how he’d vote on the study.
“I have my responsibility to try to weigh the pros and cons of all options and try to figure out the best way to solve this problem,” Storck said. “I have to figure out, based on what option the staff gives us, if the other options are better, or is this the best time to even make a change? What are the consequences if we don’t do anything now."
Both Chevalier and Tistadt said they’ve been hearing feedback and suggestions from parents in the past two weeks since the first public meeting, many of which have urged them to find a way to build a middle school in South County. It is something Storck himself has been advocating since the overcrowding problem was uncovered last year.
“I truly believe we need a middle school sooner rather than later," he said. "I’ve told my fellow board members that. The consultant’s work clearly shows there’s a population for a middle school here."
Tistadt said he has a responsibility to the taxpayers of Fairfax County to spend their money wisely and not just look to one area of the county as opposed to another.
“I understand why the community feels the way the they do,” Tistadt said. “There’s a reason for their displeasure with the school system. But urging us to build a middle school now instead of looking at the options we’ve presented and trying to find what they can live with is just going to make this harder. Their preferences and input may be lost if they’re only thinking about a middle school.”
Chevalier agreed. “We appreciate all the feedback we get," he said, "but we have to go out and do this study without the option of building a middle school right now.”
FYI-
What about that neighborhood off of Pohick Road near Rolling Rd? They are next to the Town house’s (I think go to Saratoga ES.) 1,000,000+ homes and they go to Silverbrook ES. They will not be touched in this boundary study. I bet they don’t even go to the meetings. Oh well……
http://www.fcps.edu/images/boundarymaps/silverbrookes.pdf
I don't see what you're seeing regarding that neighborhood. I drive by it every day so I know what you're talking about, I think. :) About 20 houses total right before the curve?
I guess everyone who has elected offcials other than Albo, Davis, Hyland et al should contact their elected officials as well as people like Howell from another part of the state.
It isn't fair that Silverbrook people get so many school board memebers - they even get adjuncts like Davis, Albo and Hyland. I get one and the at-larges ignore us. Gibson and Strauss never even showed up at the boundary meeting for Frost, Kilmer, and Jackson GT centers. Gosh, it's taxation without representation.
They obviously have the local papers in their back pocket as well. From the Community Times Newspapers:::
Boundary proposal steams parents
By: James Cullum
11/02/2006
Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
A proposal to redraw the attendance boundary for South County Secondary just one year after the school opened is drawing sharp criticism from parents.
At a packed community meeting inside the school last week, Fairfax County Public Schools planners outlined three proposals under consideration that would move students from the already overcrowded South County school to Lake Braddock and Hayfield secondary schools, where they are projecting a surplus of student spaces in the coming years.
Learn more
Here are some upcoming meetings on the school system's proposed boundary changes in South County.
-- Wednesday, Nov. 1 at South County Secondary School. NOTE: The meeting was after The Times' deadline. Go online to www.SpringfieldTimes.com for an update.
-- Thursday, Dec. 21, the proposed changes are scheduled to be presented to the School Board.
-- Monday and Tuesday, Jan. 8 and 9, 2007, public hearings are scheduled on the proposal at Jackson Middle School, 7 p.m.
-- Thursday, Feb. 22, the School Board is scheduled to act on the proposal.
The proposed changes could take effect as early as the next school year, fall 2007, pending school board approval some time early next year.
"The proposed changes aren't perfect, but they are what we've got, and they're better than what's in place now," said Dan Storck, the local school board member from Mount Vernon.
One option would turn South County Secondary into a traditional high school, as it was originally designed. The school is being used temporarily as a secondary school, meaning a combined middle and high school, until a future stand-alone middle school can be built nearby.
With both middle and high school students sandwiched into a building built to accommodate 2,500, South County was crowded from the day the doors opened. School planners estimate it could be more than 700 students above capacity at the start of the next school year.
If South County were converted to a high school, students from its middle school classes, as well as those from Lorton Station and Laurel Hill elementary schools, would be transferred to Hayfield Secondary. Students living near Hooes Road, Pohick Road and Ox Road would be relocated to Lake Braddock Secondary.
Under this option, all three secondary schools would be left operating at more than 90 percent, or just below capacity.
When this plan was presented, one parent stood up and yelled: "We'll be taking the trailers with us," implying that it would only provide temporary relief for overcrowding.
Another parent asked why the county is not advancing plans to build the new middle school, which drew a standing ovation from the crowd.
According to the school system's latest Capital Improvement Program, planning and construction money for the middle school will not be available for at least another five years or more.
A second option for adjusting the boundary would maintain South County as a secondary school. Students living along Pohick Road at the northern end of the existing boundary would be transferred to Lake Braddock Secondary while students east of Interstate 95 would be moved to Hayfield.
Under such a plan, South County would still operate above its capacity for the next couple years, but enrollment is expected to taper off slightly by the 2011 school year. Lake Braddock and Hayfield secondaries would operate at about 90-percent capacity.
A third option would also maintain South County as a secondary school. Students living in the South Run Oaks, Barrington and Timber Ridge areas would be relocated to Lake Braddock Secondary. Students in Lorton Station and Gunston elementary schools would be moved to Hayfield Secondary.
Under this third option, South County would again operate at full or slightly above capacity with both Hayfield and Lake Braddock secondaries operating at about 90-percent capacity.
Some parents asked for a county-wide boundary study taking into account the military's upcoming Base Realignment and Closure movements and other major developments around the county. Planning officials acknowledged the last full-scale study was performed in 1984.
The next community meeting on the boundary proposal is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. Wednesday, Nov. 1, at either South County or Hayfield secondary. Go to www.fcps.edu and look for "school boundary information" under the "facilities planning" link under the Department of Facilities and Transportation Services.
tonight at Luther Jackson before the school board meeting as seen on TV is a real work session. here are the subjects listed under the usually rather innocuous Forum on Board Topics. You cannot speak at work sessions but you can pass notes to school board members. I gather it could be a discussion on scrapping indoor plumbing for hundreds of children so the SB can give SB it's brand new middle school.
Meeting: 11/02/2006 Work Session No. 22
Category: 22. Forum on Board Topics
Agenda Type: Information
Approver: Select Approver
Agenda Item Content
Scope of work for future school renovations (Niedzielski-Eichner)
Restrictions for overseas travel for students (Oleszek)
Alternative capital spending plans for CIP (Niedzielski-Eichner)
Educating children of non-resident FCPS employees (Niedzielski-Eichner)
Recommended Action:
Since no newspapers that are published locally have chosen to address this issue properly perhaps the Richmond papers would as well as the New York Times. Meanwhile the Washington post nver got the story about George Allen and the signs which is in the Connection. There might be suspicion that Allen 's people got VDOT involved allthough I assume the property owner could put his ighted sign up on his lawn like a Christmas or Halloween display.
11:47
Stu Gibson blithely said last year to redistrict and make more split feeders of the middle schools in the Annandale/Falls Church area so that the renovation of one of the middle schools (forgot which one)could be reduced in size, scope and money.
Does Option #3 help the SB goal of getting LS out of SC permanently? They could build a MS not big enough to accomodate their return and use the excuse of "saving taxpayer $" and utilizing available space at HF".
There did seem to be some serious interest in relooking WSHS and Lee in this process.
Too bad that SCSS is actually in Lorton Station. It would really help out Silverbrook when saying it's THEIR community school.
Perhaps the Fairfax Station people could build the Great Wall of Crosspointe on the Eastern edge of the SC property that continues across Silverbrook Rd. Then there could be guards to only let the right people pass.
That was Glasgow which now has 1036 students and a present/future capacity of 1250. However it's capacity used to be 1650. That difference was 10 classrooms which they are getting as part of the replacement building. Kory won Gibson lost. I guess Chevalier just changed the capacity numbers based on "programming needs."
FCPS put on 10 rooms at Luther Jackson which had 6 trailers yet they think they can stuff in more.
Today's Connection
Keeping Silverbrook United
Silverbrook parents, School Board members meet, discuss boundary study options.
By Amber Healy
November 1, 2006
Photo by Amber Healy/The Connection
Following her presentation on the history of South County Secondary School, Crosspointe resident Liz Bradsher received a standing ovation from the Silverbrook community.
The community that worked together for over a decade to have the South County Secondary School built is staying strong, organizing and meeting to find a solution to keep their children together.
Under all of the three proposed options to the boundary study that would remove students from the overcrowded South County school, children from Silverbrook Elementary would be split up, most likely going to Lake Braddock Secondary. It's an option, parents believe, that is simply unacceptable.
"The best alternative is to keep Silverbrook together and keep South County together," said South Run Oaks resident Alan Fogg, whose three children currently attend South County.
The boundary study, which will impact students at South County, Hayfield and Lake Braddock Secondary schools, has been a contentious undertaking by the Fairfax County School Board. Some board members have been hesitant to modify the boundaries so soon after boundaries were changed to accommodate the September 2005 opening of South County.
"None of the options presented so far are acceptable," said Fogg, at the beginning of a meeting on Thursday, Oct. 26 in the Silverbrook gymnasium. "They did not include any realistic way to solve the problem."
TWO OF THE THREE proposals would remove rising seventh and ninth grade students beginning next fall, sending half east to Hayfield and the other half to Lake Braddock. The third option would remove all middle school students from South County, send them to Hayfield or Lake Braddock for two years and reunite all students at South County for high school. Parents at Thursday's meeting argued that the only real solution is to build a middle school.
School staff members have said a middle school is not needed and that excess capacity at both Hayfield and Lake Braddock is more than enough to accommodate the students.
"Lake Braddock's core facilities have not expanded during the school's renovation," said South Run Oaks resident Tory Smith, who picked apart all three options and discussed her problems with each in depth.
"The school has added seats, but things like the gym, the cafeteria and the sports fields have not been expanded," she said. "Some of the sports teams already have to practice on a staggered schedule because there's no room."
If the first option were approved and middle school students taken out of South County, making it only a high school, the students would turn into ping-pong balls, bouncing back and forth between schools, she said.
"Plus, all the available seats at Lake Braddock are projected," Smith said. "We all know our track record with projections hasn't been great."
Other concerns, including the amount of time students will spend on buses going to and from either Lake Braddock or Hayfield, or the amount of traffic student drivers will encounter during morning and afternoon rush hours, add to the problems Smith said her community should not have to face.
She urged parents to attend the next boundary study meeting, scheduled for Wednesday night at South County, as a group and speak out in their opposition to the proposals.
"Our mantra should be, keep Silverbrook together," she said. "That's the only acceptable solution."
Rob Robertory, a Barrington resident, said the numbers just don't add up in support of any of the proposed options.
"We're still trying to find all the extra capacity at Lake Braddock that the school staff's been saying they've had for the past three years," Robertory said. Citing information from the 2006-07 enrollment projections for a handful of schools in the vicinity of Lake Braddock, South County and Hayfield, Robertory pointed out that in almost every case where the school staff had predicted a loss of students, there had in fact been an increase.
For example, Robertory said, the population at Robinson Secondary School was under-projected by 136 students between the end of the 2005-06 school year and the start of the current one. Enrollment numbers at Woodson High School were 73 students lower than how many are currently attending there, while Annandale High School has 102 students more than were expected.
NONE OF THE proposed options takes into consideration any additional students to move into the area as a result of changes at Fort Belvoir and the Engineer Proving Ground in Springfield, due in part to a lack of solid statistics from the Army, Robertory said.
"It's not inconceivable that the EPG will put pressure on West Springfield (High School) and Lake Braddock, but it will definitely affect Lee," he said. "No one knows for certain what will happen. There's a lot of crowded schools, but it doesn't make sense to keep crowding Lake Braddock."
Supervisor Elaine McConnell (R-Springfield) said she's inclined to believe the Army's statement that not many school-aged children will be moved into the area, as many employees will simply be changing their commute, from Crystal City to the EPG or Fort Belvoir.
"I feel comfortable about it," said McConnell, about students not overcrowding schools. "The kids are already here, the families are already here, they're just changing direction."
Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon) disagreed, stating that half of the current employees at the National Geospatial Service will be retiring or relocated by the time the Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) changes are in place in September 2011, leaving nearly 4,000 positions open for new families to take.
"That might have a dramatic effect on the people moving closer to the EPG and could have an impact on our schools," Hyland said.
To provide a bit of perspective, Crosspointe resident Liz Bradsher gave an overview of the history of South County, listing how the Silverbrook community and its support of the school was vital in it being built before planned in the school system's Capital Improvement Plan.
"No one is entitled to go to this school, but we've definitely earned the privilege to go to South County," Bradsher said. "The residents here were the catalyst to make it work. We are one of the South County core communities."
Bradsher said both Hayfield and Lake Braddock were good schools, but her community has grown used to wearing South County's blue and green attire.
"This is our community school," she said. "Lake Braddock doesn't need our students. We are two miles away from South County, it's in our community."
Bradsher received a standing ovation from the crowded gymnasium.
Hyland said he was sympathetic to the parents' ordeal and would feel the same way if he were in their seats.
"My commitment to everyone here, if the School Board decides to try to move up the construction of the middle school ... is to do everything in my power to help make that happen," Hyland said. "We need to find, between the Board of Supervisors and the School Board, a way to look at building a middle school as an alternative. If we do that, maybe the decision to do any boundary changes should be put off."
Hyland was interrupted by loud applause as he spoke but continued to promise his support of building a middle school prior to its 2017 date on the CIP.
"I hope to get something from (Superintendent) Jack Dale and Dean (Tistadt, assistant superintendent of facilities and transportation) and the county executive within a week to 10 days to find out if this is a viable option," he said.
This time, McConnell was on the same page as Hyland, adding that for the 23 years she's been on the Board of Supervisors, she'd believed the Lorton area needed a high school.
"The fact is, I'm also an educator and I know how real the need is to have schools close to home," McConnell said. "We desperately need a middle school. You have my support."
School Board member Dan Storck (Mount Vernon) said he was initially against a boundary study so soon after the school opened, and if a viable way to fund a middle school within the next few years could be found, he'd consider not changing the boundaries.
"We recognize the numbers we've used might not be perfect but we need to make them the best we can," Storck said. "The concerns we all have is that we don't know what the numbers truly are for some things."
Wow. The bitternesss and hate I am reading in this blog amazes me. The assumption that SB residents are all so evil and conniving and underhanded tells me just how much you WANT to hate someone. You WANT to BLAME someone. The only thing the SB community did was to stand up for itself. It is the School Board that votes on these boundaries, not the Silverbrook community. Your inferance that they have the newspapers and School Board members "in their pockets" is simply humorous. It speaks to just how impresssed you are with their activism. The comment about the "great Wall of Crosspointe" is also humorous. There are so many more SB neighborhoods actively involved in this boundary battle other than Crosspointe..and many are quite modest areas. However, simple psychology would suggest there is alot of jelousy going on here as a motivator. Stop wasting your time writing on this blog and go seek some therapy. Find God, not hate. It'll do you good.
Straight from the post above yours.
"No one is entitled to go to this school, but we've definitely earned the privilege to go to South County," Bradsher said. "The residents here were the catalyst to make it work. We are one of the South County core communities."
Does anyone know what a South County core community is?
Silverbrook, Lorton Station and Newington Forest.
Sorry not Lorton Station, I meant to say Halley
I would like to see a MS with Lorton, Halley, Silverbrook, Newington Forest and eventually Laurel Hill feeding it completed soon. Maybe Laurel hill could be 6-8 for now until that could happen.
All of these are core South County communities, part of the South County Pyramid and deserve to belong to a community school. I am proud of what the Silverbrook, Crosspoint, Lorton Station and other SC communities have done for the our part of the county.
I am concerned that Option #3 will take Lorton Station away from us permanently. I know that F&P said that they would come back, but I am not convinced.
to 11/02/2006 1:49 PM
I don't see bitterness and hate. People just don't get why this county is pandering and wasting our money. Where are the other school bard members and board of supervisors? I see posturing politicians taking my money for unnecessary school construction. Just as Virginia looks as FX county as a child does mom's wallet so does South County. I'm amazed how many board of supervisors show up for a PTA meeting. McConnell owns the Accotink special ed schools - why can't she open her mouth and do something for the special ed kids in FX county? I'm surprised to read George Allen didn't show up too.
Can't get any further South then Mason neck in this County. Ohh the bastard child thrown out with the bath water.....
Can't get any further South then Mason neck in this County. Ohh the bastard child thrown out with the bath water.....
Yet Mason Neck and Lorton Station are not on the list of South County core communities. I wonder why?
Should we rename South County SS? I know this was discussed before, but if the south part of the county is going to Hayfield maybe SCSS should be renamed.
Nominations?
The obvious are probably Lorton HS or Bradshear HS
IF Lake Braddock goes off the table (they chose option 3)it should be off the table for a very good publicized reason and kept off the table for years.
No more studies to fill LBSS. This should be their LAST chance to make the hard decisions.
We at LBSS are sick and tired of being in study after study and our school dragged through the mill and dirt each time.
Lorton Station is a core community of South County. Since MN and Gunston are headed to Hayfield they should rename it Lorton High School.
3;11,
Option 3 includes a phase II. If they choose option 3 in guarentees another look in two years during phase II. Not a bad idea when you consider all of the unknown things.
Look here it the bottom line. No middle school exist now and if it comes about it will probably be 5 years before it could open. Noone argues that Hayfield has room and should take kids back, however Hayfield alone cannot relieve the overcrowding at South County. LBSS has room according to the experts no matter what the parents say and they will continue to have more and more room as the years go by if nothing is changed at LBSS, look at the numbers. So it comes down to leave South County crowded or move some to LBSS. I do not for a second believe that if no middle school solution is found by 2008 that the boundary is going to change sending more kids out of SCSS. If a school is able to be funded, who here believes the areas sent back to Hayfield will be welcomed back in the to SCSS? Not me, because that middle school will be another entitlement school reserved for the "core south county communities" of Silverbrook,Newington Forest,and Halley.
Can't be Lorton HS, because most of the students live in Fairfax Station. How bout Fairfax Station High School at Lorton Farm. FSHSLF
3:11
You need to talk to the people over at Mount Vernon. Somehow they were awarded "Hands of status" which you seek. Please do tell us why should your school be treated any different then Hayfield, this is round two for us as well.
How long until they can build the Lorton Middle School?
4-5 years, unless they put some window air units in some of those old prison buildings then they would be good to go right NOW.
Fairfax Station High School - could actually make it below capacity now without using Lake Braddock. After all one of Chevaliers's original options was to remove Newington Forest. That could go to Lee and Saratoga to Hayfield since Silverbrook is all that matters to this school board. Then nothing has to be built.
3:21- I unscrambled your name suggestions and came up with the word SELFISH!
Your giving me a Headache. You want to throw a Lee and Saratoga into the mix. Where is MR. 1:04 to save us from this madness.
Lorton Station needs to dump the GTC, pull back Hagel Circle, and get the money Halley is siphoning off from it's community. The capacity numbers will go up at Halley. Gosh in Halley boundaries you can live in a milon plus house , get low class sizes, and full day kindergarten. Who else has this on a school wide basis in this county?
Lorton Middle School and Fairfax Station High School is fine.
Hayfield should learn to be more selfish. HF is not very good at it.
Very good 3:40, you must be a graduate of a GT center far far away. I was going to propose the new school be named Silverbrook eliminates Lorton, Fairfax Station In Senior High, but thought that was too easy to decipher.
Saratoga and Lee are not part of this study. Chevalier NEVER suggested sending NF to Lee, or involve Saratoga in any way. How many times do you need to be reminded? Option 2A (sending NF to LBSS) would balance numbers and save the taxpayers millions of dollars because a middle school would not be needed. The answers are there, plain and simple.
I don't want to throw Lee and Saratoga into this mess. I only mentioned those schools as an example because this school board gets hooked on small pieces of the overall picture and wastes it's time, effort, energy, and money. Case in pint was the whole Lee daventry Debacle last year. That never even should ave happened yet it did and was a major focus point of this board. I even resent the 300, 000 for the demographer and the transportation study since it is obvious from the SC situatio that the results are meanigless..
No one is suggesting that Saratoga or Lee are part of this study. They do not need to be in the study.
... of course the SB can make amendments to the F&P reccomendations that include them. :)
Why is this Plain and Simple solution so difficult? The school board will not make the tough call. 2a and 2b should be revived and a choice of one be made and be done with it. LBSS can be then left alone, Hayfield can move on, and SCSS can go on about doing what they do best.
A plain and simple solution:
All of the Hayfield pyramid elementary schools go to Hayfield SS.
All of the South County pyramid schools go to South County SS.
All of the Lake Braddock pyramid schools go to Lake Braddock SS.
Not so plain and simple when there are split feeders.
2B is the best solution.
^^Ditto.
SB to LB
LS&G to H
Everyoned else stay at SC.
I am sick and tired of the school Boad trying to make affluent neighborhoods happy. It was obvious from the WSHS boundary review that their main objective was to get an affluent neighborhood out of Lee and into WSHS. Thankfully it didn't work.
This time it looks like they're going to take the easy way out and not solve the overcrowding problem at SCSS. Why put everyone through the study if you don't have the guts to make the tough decisions.
I can't wait until 2007 to vote these turkeys out of office.
Plain and simple means keep the problem in focus- SCSS is overcrowded.An option that does not abate the problem, is not an acceptable solution.
This is not about LBSS wanting its' own space and timeline. It's not about somebodys interpretation of community and keeping those in it together-whether it is a school community or neighborhood or geographic location in the county.
One school is grossly overcrowded. FIX IT.
Hurrah for 9:12. You nailed it. Now everyone write the schoolboard. Call them. Invite them over for coffee, but make sure you are heard!
Yes, make sure you are heard, otherwise we will all pay for a new middle school, just so Silverbrook, Halley and Newington Forest can stay together. They will never let Mason Neck and Lorton Station back in. Why should we pay for that?
The only way to ensure that Lorton Station ES gets to go to a new Lorton Middle School is to leave them at SC. Once they return to HF they will never go back.
Option 104 is looking better all the time.
Lake Braddock got a 12 room addition as part of it's renovation. It had 11 trailers for overcrowding in the CIP. Move out the Lorton Station GT center kids and it can take in Silverbrook's western barbell with no trailers. Those kids are not a reduced ratio population. Also Silverbrook needs to examined for western and eastern barbells independently.
Hayfield could get portions of the eastern barbell that border the Lorton Station attendance area. The Newington Forest finger and possibly more could also go to Hayfield. I don't live in Mason Neck but it makes more sense than bussing them from the burro farm to Hayfield. Low density areas have long routes just to load the bus so it's different than when it is in a standard suburban or townhouse load.
Unfortunately it looks like they will get their middle school and FCPS seems to have scrapped this part of the old Policy 8120. I guess this could be interpreted to mean the association (HOA's?) or communities should provide cash :
IV COOPERATIVE UTILIZATION
If additional facilities or facilities larger than those required to meet
the approved educational program are provided to meet other county agency
or community needs, the cooperating agency, community group, or association
shall be asked for supporting funds or other assistance.
What are barbells?
The open space at Mount Vernon and Hayfield
Didn't the SB hire a consultant and that is how we got option 2A and 2B? Yet, after one Silverbrook community meeting, both these options were thrown out. Why did the SB hire a consultant and then not take the advice? Why do they believe the Silverbrook numbers? Tistadt says we have enough room at Hayfield and Lake Braddock for excess SCSS students, why doesn't the SB believe him? The SB must look again at 2A and 2B, and stop spending tax payer money to build a middle school that we don't need.
F&P ignored the impact of BRAC on Hayfield; they ignored the MS/HS mix issue, and just ignored HF concerns in general. In fact, option 3 makes things worse than option 2 did! But, they did listen and make changes for everyone else. They delayed the decisions related to Silverbrook, Newington Forest, and Lake Braddock until more information on BRAC and other issues were resolved. They acknowledged that Silver Brook and Braddock’s concerns about capacity at Lake Braddock might be legitimate and they acknowledged that a Middle School could be built. Those were two major changes in Facilities and Planning attitude from the previous meeting. Good for them.
The SC (especially Silverbrook) communities stated their case clearly and in a professional matter and are so far sucessful. I went to the "Silverbrook meeting" and felt welcome. They are well organized, come out in mass, and have a clear message. I have little doubt that they will get a Middle School sooner than later.
The boundary changes that happen now will most likely be permanent for Hayfield. They probably should be. Why jerk the Lorton Station and Gunston families around any more than we have too? Let's have an option (like Option 2) that brings HF up to the 90-93% the board wants and when phase II comes the kids coming to Hayfield might be able to continue.
I am afraid we at HF do not have enough people showing up, speaking up, and contacting the board to have the impact we need.
We welcome more HS and MS kids at Hayfield (please not just MS!). We have HS programs that need more kids. We do not care what their economic status or ethnic background is or was. FRL or ESOL? fine. Option 3 brings in too many too fast.
It would be great to bring Hayfield to 90-93% capacity like the board was pushing for, but option 3 is TOO MANY and TOO FAST. We (and FCPS) need some room for the unknowns (BRAC, Rose Hill impact, SC/Lorton Middle School, Laurel Hill ES, etc).
The consultant wasn't involved with the boundary. You can look at all the numbers on the County website. That is where Silverbrook got them
9:15 Tistadt and F&P have been historically wrong (on the low side) in their estimates for years. They may be right this time, but their track record is poor and it is difficult to believe them now. It is certainly right (if not an obligation) for the SB and the community to question the numbers. The Silverbrook and LB are much closer to the problem and have more detailed information. They questioned the information, presented other data, F&P looked into it, and decided that SB and LB had a point. F&P will reasses after the renovations are complete. The system is working.
from 11/03/2006 8:49 AM
go to the CIP back-up data. Silverbrook's attendance area is shaped like a barbell.
I think most of the new construction is in Lorton Station and the eastern barbell. This is the stuff of the administrative boundary change for new construction that might go to Halley. There are also homes over 1 million in Halley's own attendance area. From school board website:
"For Discussion at March 13, 2006, Facilities & Operations work session PROPOSED LANGUAGE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE BOUNDARY FOR LORTON STATION, SILVERBROOK, HALLEY ES The administrative boundary change moves students to Halley Elementary School from the Lorton Station and Silverbrook attendance areas. The administrative boundary change includes, but is not limited to, unoccupied sections of Laurel Hill and Laurel Highlands in the Silverbrook Elementary School attendance area and the Lorton Station, Park Place and Gunston Cove developments in the Lorton Station Elementary School attendance area. Also included are developments with approved or pending rezonings as well as future rezonings from both the Silverbrook and Lorton Station attendance areas."
No, the system is not working. We spent a lot of money on a consultant, for what? Silverbrook had one meeting, and all the work done by F@P in study 2A and 2B was thrown out. Silverbrook and LB are not much closer to the problem. They have a clear adjenda, to build a MS for Silverbrook, Halley & NF only, and to keep LB under-capactiy, at the expense of Hayfield.
9:33 AM
Lake Braddock in the out years might have mre open capacity but in the near term can definitely take in at least 100 ms and 200 hs. Why should the criteria vary for this section of the county? Just who do they think they are? I know GTC's and I now they are portable evrywhere else in this county!!!! Lake Braddock has room for about 88 Silerbrook, Halley, Newington Forst, Gunston, and Lorton Station base school kids who are designated GT Center for MS but it does not have room to swap base school kids. Check out what Facilities and Planning has proposed for Jackson MS as pat of the same boundary process cycle.
Below is my message sent to the School Board. What do you all think?
Dear Board members,
I wanted to send a proposal concerning the lastest round of boundary meetings of South County Secondary. I have been to all the meetings both two years ago and this year and I understand the issues and difficulties facing the School Board. I do believe that the option three presented by the Facilites office is, on paper, a workable solution both in the short term and long term for all concerned. However, this option falls far short of the School Boards guidance to Facilities to come up with a plan to balance the utilization of all three schools involved without leaving any overcrowded. If option 3 is adopted Hayfield will be utilized and not overcrowed FOR ONLY ONE YEAR! The numbers we are seeing at Hayfield concerning option 3 will put the middle school at Hayfield at capacity, and the High School with room but getting very close to capacity within a few years while the middle school portion would go beyond its capacity.
Option 3 does nothing to utilized LBSS space and leaves SCSS very much over capacity requiring another round of boundary studies in 2008. I understand the reasoning behind the phase one and two of Option 3 is to give more time for a possible "no cost" new middle school and to monitor projections of attendence at LBSS. However I believe that the same unknowns concerning projections for LBSS can also be said for Hayfield secondary what with BRAC, and the continued developement within Hayfield's present boundaries.
I would like to propose a solution for Hayfield now, in order to eliminate the need for Hayfield to be involved in yet another boundary study in 2008. Option 3 has too many students coming back to Hayfield too soon. I propose that the option 3 boundary proposal be tweaked so that less students are coming back to Hayfield. Mr. Center's stated goals for Hayfield was to leave this school at 90-93 percent capacity in order to allow room to absorb further increases in school population from unknown souces such as BRAC, new family turn over, and new developement. I think 90-93 percent is a reasonable goal for Hayfield given the unknowns mentioned above which are more pronounced then they are for the Lake Braddock area. All projections by Facilities and Dr. McKibbon have LBSS population decreasing for the next five years if nothing is done now. Phase 2 of option 3 indicates that if a "no cost" new middle school comes about then the boundary for LBSS will not have to change and students that were sent from South County to Hayfield could possible be sent back to South County as a result of a new school and a 2008 boundry change. If the middle school is not an option then a study in 2008 will look into room at LBSS (if there) and new boundaries will be set sending some of the South County area to Lake Braddock. Now to avoid further back and fourth of areas in the Southeastern portion of the current South County boundaries, I propose that you leave those areas currently in South County boundaries in South county which can reasonbly be expected to revert back to the South county school district if a new middle school were to be built. Then Hayfield will be at a population where it could absorb more students without being over capacity within a few years, and kids along the boundary lines would not have to bounce back again after just another two years. The area that I think could reasonable be expected to revert back to South County given a new school is built is that area of Lorton Station West of I-95. Given that Lorton Station Elementary School is currently over capacity, I believe that this area West of I-95 in the Lorton Station Elementary School district would probably be redistricted to the new Laurel Hills Elementary School when that opens anyway. Obviously the location of Laurel Hills so close to South County will feed into South County Secondary thus this area in two years would be in a South County feeder school anyway. I would also like to propose that the area of the Gunston Elementary school boundary known as "Mason Neck" should also remain in the South County school boundary. This area is truly in the South of Fairfax county and is really a long bus ride for those kids upto Hayfield. I am told that Mason Neck residents were involved in the effort to get South County built for the same reason as the communites West of Hayfield and that was to get a school closer to their homes. This area, as you know, is sparsely populated and will remain that way due to the large areas of land which cannot or will not be allowed to be developed. The rising middle schoolers from this area of Gunston Elementary I am told is approximately 80 kids, surely such a small number could be accomodated at school that is closer to get too in both distance and more importantly in time on the bus.
I understand that what I propose will only add to the existing overcrowding at SCSS, but I believe it would be best to live with an overcrowded SCSS for a couple years more then to possibly create another over crowded secondary school at Hayfield. Furthermore by making Hayfield's boundaries set now it avoids putting the Hayfield community through a third round of boundry meetings and allows those communities along the line between Hayfield and South County to know that they are Hawks or Stallions now and into the future.
As a side note to this, like LBSS, if the above proposal were to be adopted by the board, I would expect that the attendence would be monitored at Hayfield as well to see if the projections pan out. It is unlikely, but if the numbers were lower then expected after BRAC and the Hayfield area gets built out like the Lake Braddock area is now, the extra capicity could be looked at to relieve overcrowded schools closer to Hayfield in the future. For instance, West Potomac comes to mind. The feeder school Groveton Elementary, which feeds West Potomac, is the next closest Elementary school outside the Hayfield pyramid and really is a community school in the Hayfield area, much closer to the HSS then Gunston or Lorton Station for that matter.
Thank you for your time and consideration and I wish you the best.
as of 10:20 today Fri 11-3-06 FCPS Facilties & Planning has not posted it's Handout from the Wed 11-1-06 evening meeting. Curious since such an endeavor is a couple of clicks. I guess SB=SB. School Board=SilverBrook.
Here is a response I received from Brad Center:
You articulate a reasonable suggestion and one I too am looking at as a possible alternative. I too am concerned at the capacity numbers for Hayfield in option three. Feel free to share this response with others at Hayfield.
Brad Center
Vice Chair -- Fairfax County School Board Lee District
9:57
That sounds reasonable, but are you sure of the numbers? I think that HF would be best served with the boundaries in Option 2A/2B. The SB can delay the northern move until phase II, but I think you may be sending too many students to HF.
Also, the issue of the attendence islands E of I-95 that attend Halley need to be addressed. I suspect that when Laurel Hill ES boundaries are made there will be an effort to eliminate attendence islands. Those kids should get to attend the same school that everyone else in their Elem school attend whether that is HF, SC, MV, or whereever.
HF families you need to organize ASAP. Hold a meeting at your school to discuss the impact and collect the names, addresses and e-mails of every person in attendance using sign in sheets. Than you can start e-mail everyone keeping them up with what's happening and what they can do to help.
Good luck!
Remember, the school board votes according to the number of responses they get. If you contact all the board members, invite them to your meetings and express your concerns, you have a chance. The public hearings are vital. The more people you have speaking, the more chance you have of getting the changes you need for your school. If the school board hears a lot of testimony from one group, they will take notice. In the first boundary hearing, the Silverbrook/Halley/NF communities had the most speakers, and they got what they wanted. They have the biggest voice now, and they managed to get rid of 2A and 2B, on numbers Tistadt says are wrong. I would rather trust Tistadt's numbers than the Silverbrook numbers. If you do nothing, you will get nothing. Good Luck!
The letter to SB is too wordy. But most importantly it blatantly IGNORES the objective of relieving the overcrowding at SCSS.
It is not OK to keep the status quo in this study. Something has to be done.
Our County provides taxes for a world class education.Our school system works- when politics stay OUT. SCSS is a classic example of what happens when politics collide with education.
Our children deserve better than trailers. Make these politicians give then what our taxes pay for! Stop thinking of yourselves and instead think of your student in a trailer for most of the day while others in FFXCO go to school in newly renovated and technologically advanced facilities. Hello? Which would you pick?
Fix the overcrowding. Option 2B
12:03
I believe those Islands you speak of go to Halley and onto SCSS. When Laurel Hill boundary discussion open I assume that boundary meetings will include the adjacent schools of Silverbrook, Halley, and Lorton Station. Seeing as how that Silverbrook is grossly overcrowed (heard they have five 5th grade classes) and Lorton station also over capacity, I would think that the new School and Halley (which is under capacity) would be candidates to relieve South County and Lorton Station. I suppose they could move the island over to Lorton Station, but that battle was already fought, I wounder if they would even want to go there.
I meant relieve Silverbrook Elementary and Lorton station.
9:57
You maybe right about the numbers. The difference in numbers in plans 2 and 3 for students coming back to Hayfield is 154 more in option 3 for next year and 164 more in the out year of 2012. I agree that plan 2 would better serve Hayfield as far as numbers but remember they are trying to hold the line on any more overcrowding at SCSS in option 3 while they put on hold what to do with the rest of the overcrowding. The idea behind option 3 is to give some relief (i.e. hold the line) while figuring out later how to bring the SCSS numbers down. Not perfect but my idea to the school board would end this nightmare now for Hayfield and take back some students that we all know are coming back anyway, but leave the areas in SCSS that have a realistic or I should say a deserved chance of staying in the SCSS. In other words don't bring them out now only to put them back if a new middle school is built.
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