Due to overcrowding at South County Secondary School, school boundaries for Hayfield Secondary, Lake Braddock Secondary and South County Secondary Schools are once more in question. All affected communities are invited to two important town meetings -- one is this evening, Tuesday, October 10, and the next is on Wednesday, November 1, at 7:30 p.m., both at South County Secondary School's auditorium.
What’s happening to change it?
The Fairfax County School Board is reviewing at least two possible boundary scenarios: making a traditional boundary adjustment based on geography; or eliminating the middle school from South County Secondary and dividing the middle school population (projected at more than 1,000 students) between Hayfield Secondary and Lake Braddock Secondary Schools based on available seats at each school.
What are the desired outcomes?
- Hayfield Secondary School (HSS) should remain under capacity if boundaries are redrawn to allow for future growth. HSS was well over capacity for well over a decade!
- HSS should remain a balanced, diverse and desirable community school, with only elementary schools in the immediately surrounding neighborhoods feeding the school.
- Students should stay at HSS for all six years of middle and high school. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are secondary schools with carefully planned and separate spaces for middle school and high school populations. A large middle school population and a smaller high school population would be detrimental to the educational quality on both sides of the building.
- Transportation routes and bus ride time MUST be considered during the boundary-setting process.
- The school board MUST consider consequences from DoD’s Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process –– with a potential influx of 20,000 workers at Fort Belvoir over the next four years.
What about these town meetings?
Please plan to attend this evening's (Tuesday, October 10) meeting, and be sure to mark your calendar for the follow-up meeting on Wednesday, November 1. Each meeting begins at 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium of South County Secondary School, located at 8501 Silverbrook Rd., Lorton, VA 22079. The meetings will feature group discussions and breakout sessions so the school board can gather data and info from the affected communities. As parents, residents and voters, you are strongly encouraged to attend and prove to the school board that you have a vested interest in the educational needs of your children and the welfare of your community. That’s why it’s important to be there!
2,729 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 1000 of 2729 Newer› Newest»This blog has gone beyond just Hayfield as seen by some of the posts. We cannot be so school-centric and think of only what's good for South County, Hayfield OR Lake Braddock. We all need to come up with a solution that's good for ALL the secondary schools in this study.
Option 1 got all the schools to acceptable levels of capacity but LB and H think it's too disruptive for a secondar school.
Option 2A and 2B keep SC slightly overcapacity. Kids are redistricted to both LB and H but not in unwieldy numbers.
Option 3 puts all the SC overcrowding burden on Hayfield, not touching LB, and keeping SC way over capacity.
The problem with option 3 is it only removes neighborhoods with the higher socioeconomic indicators from SC. It doesn't reduce the SC population enough and the Silverbrook crowd will still claim they need a middle school.
LBss does not have the space yet. Ee need to delay the SB/NF move for a couple of years to see if the space will be there and then start phasing it in with rising 7th graders.
Option #3 sends too many kids to HF, but the boundaries could be modified to make it work.
An advantage to #3 (although you could apply it to #2) is that it moves the SC to HF population much faster by moving all 7-8-9. Sending all 7-8-9 all at once will put a big stress on SC and HF. It will bring the HF Middle School to capacity all at once and fill up the High School within 3 years.
7:42 Why is that a problem for #3? Who cares? The need for a Middle school exists now and will continue to exist regardless of the results of this study. F&P and the board put the MS in the CIP for a reason -- it is and will be necessary and important to FCPS.
The ms isn't due to be built for 10 years. It probably will be necessary at that time. It shouldn't be built before then.
Until then use the seats at Lake Braddock along with Hayfield. There are more empty seats between the 2 schools than extra kids at SC. There will be no immediate need for a middle school if Option 1, 2A or 2B are voted on by the School Board.
Just because a new school is in the CIP does not mean it will be built. The CIP used to include a new middle school in Northwest Fairfax which was removed even though it might have been on a bond referendum. The CIP is supposed to be a dynamic document which should change based on updated needs.
In answer to 11/15/2006 7:45 PM.
To see color maps of 2A and 2B go to http://www.fcps.edu/news/boundary.htm and click on "Handout" from the October 10 meeting. That will give you the entire handout with the maps in color. If you zoom in on the Hagel Circle area, you will see two small areas colored green (Hayfield), while the rest is pink (SCSS). There has been much debate on this blog about Hagel Circle. However, those two little green areas are there. What neighborhoods are they? Is it Hagel Circle et el? If not Hagel Circle, who are they?
There has been confusion because of differing definitions of what as "island" is and what it isn't. F&P has said the islands will go to Hayfield (and they still say that), and most of us thought that meant the four islands you see on the Halley ES boundary map. However, Hagel and others are not necessarily seen as islands -- and there may be other islands as well.
Here is what F&P said in an email forwarded around yesterday:
"It’s hard to pick up the “islands” from the small scale map in the handout but the ones east of Rt. 95 would be assigned to Hayfield. However Hagel Circle, Gunston Sq, Lorton Station II would not; they would remain in South County Secondary. We moved the islands because we expect their elementary assignment to change when the new Laurel Hill Elementary opens."
We heard that there was no need for a High School in South County for 15 years while Hayfield and others were overcrowded. Now we are told that there is no need for a Middle School because space will appear at Lake Braddock and we are expected to believe it? If this come true, then we can move some kids from Sc to LB, but the track record of estimates is very bad. The space is there at HF and they want some kids so send them. Let's wait on the other move until the assumptions can become facts/fiction.
Thank-you 9:04 - that helps clear things up. However, does anyone know who those two little areas are? They go to SCSS now, they are not Hagel Circle, yet they are green (Hayfield) on the map. I was wondering why they were not staying at SCSS, since the neighborhoods around them are.
This is very simple for the next 2 years in terms of the 3 secondaary school enrollments. Count the 5th, 6th graders who attend the various feeder schools and compare them to the 7th grade population at each secondary. The population of the current 6th grade is less than that of the current 7th grade. 5th grade is even smaller than that. The baby boomlet is over.
9:10 - If you are worried about LB numbers being correct, you should be more concerned about Hayfield. BRAC will have a huge impact on that school and very little on LB. The Silverbrook community has been planning their arguments for this boundary study for some time, and have focused heavily on trying to prove that LB numbers as projected by F&P are wrong. If they can make the case that LB does not have the space, they will ensure they stay at SCSS. Since this community's agenda is clear, I would rather believe F&P numbers.
The FCPS numbers about this particular area have been wrong for years. The track record is not good. The majority of BRAC is happening west of I-95/Rolling Rd. Hayfield may feel an impact but so will others like WSHS, Lee, SCSS etc. BRAC is not going to happen for years. Transportation networks must be improved and leases have to run out at Crystal City, some are 15 year leases and longer. BRAC is really not too valid of an argument when the need to reduce capacity at SCSS is now. Your bias regarding Silverbrook is well documented, it does your argument little good and damages all credibility.
I live in Barrington, spouse works in Crystal City (for now). They aren't putting all the BRAC offices on the EPG. A lot of them will be on Fort Belvoir proper. The housing is being built on Ft. Belvoir. Those kids currently attend Mount Vernon. NO BRACed units are going to be reassigned to Burke or Fairfax Station. It's all going to the southern portions of Alexandria and Central Springfield.
The impact of BRAC on the school pop will be felt in the 2011-2015 timeframe. Over time it will increase interest in family housing in the Ft. Belvoir/EPG region. Where there is space developers will try to fill in. Also, as people move (including older people without kids) or die, families with kids are more likely to move in.
The impact will on school population will likely be slow and gradual. It will be limited by the amount of houses that can be or allowed to be built in each region.
We do not need to panic over this but we do need to try and create the School Board's 7-10% buffer in as many places as possible to try and accomodate it.
The impact on traffic will be more dramatic. THIS might make us want to consider the bus routes and bus time as more important than "excess capacity". It may be worth creating capacity nearby instead of bussing kids to LB and HF.
The Belvoir housing will have kids going to Belvoir ES and Mount Vernon. Mt. Vernon is way under and needs the kids (although the Belvoir ED may have trouble) so this will not be a problem.
The trouble here is the kids at Belvoir don't grow up and become HS students. They move away with their parents and are replaced by more ES kids. It will be difficult to calculate the impacts on the MV pyramid.
Who is biased against Silverbrook? The only reason we have a problem with Silverbrook is because of the agenda they hold. Silverbrook is trying to massage data to show that LBSS will not have room anytime soon so that they do not get sent out of SCSS. If no middle school comes about in two years that lack of space in LB will somehow continue and they will point to the folks to the South as the folks that must leave to reduce crowding at SCSS. That would then get the "Wrong" kids out of there "entitlement" school and bring trailers back to Hayfield!
Who are the "wrong" kids?? What are you trying to say??? Silverbrook went to Hayfield for 20+ years, particiapted in every aspect of the school. To my knowledge they were a big part of Hayfield's PTSA. Now that area has a school no more than 2 miles from most of their homes. LBSS may have room but is it their worry?? Other areas can fill it up. Silverbrook has no real agenda, it seems to me they just want to stay at SCSS. No one to my knowledge in that area has spoken about "certain kids" certain areas, it has only been you. Again you are hurting our issue by stressing such statements.
go back in this blog and you will see several statements about kids from the east side of 95 and demographics. I understand Silverbrooks desire to stay at SCSS, but when no middle school comes about it will come down to "who is going to leave?" Now you are already positioning yourself to fill LBSS with other Schools, and who would that be? Robinson, Woodson, West Springfield. I would have to check but I suspect these schools will also be going down in numbers. The fact is countywide we will have less students, although the South part of the County will grow. Why would you not look at an area losing students? Hayfield will get students, and the areas of South County that will come will also be growing. We should be careful how much we bring back to Hayfield to avoid recreating another overcrowded school in the future. You can't do that by leaving LBSS off the table
Go back and look at the Washington Post blogs, and similar "east of I95" statements there. These types of comments are not new. You know these statements have been made and trying to act all innocent now is a joke.
The east of I95 comments were also written in letters to the editor from Silverbrook residents when the original SC boundaries were set.
There were some comments about Mount Vernon. It can't be turned into a secondary school since it seems to be traditionally 800 under capcity (2550) while Whitman is 1000 capacity and about 950 kids. What could be done is to use space at Mount Vernon like is done at some private shools. They sometimes split grade levels into campusses. Perhaps Belvoir grades 5-6 could be in a dedicated wing of Mount Vernon. That 's the sort of creativity FCPS had in the 1980's when it set up various operations and programs more effectively than it does now.
You really want your 5th and/or 6th grader mixed in with hsers? Somehow I don't think you live on Belvoir and it wouldn't be YOUR kids that would be affected.
You don't have to close Walt Whitman to make MV a Secondary School. Just open part of it for @ 5-600 kids. that way you could take the pressure off of WW and make room for the incoming kids from Belvoir housing or wherever.
MV and SC currently share a large boundary, but it is mostly the hugely unpopulated Mason Neck area.
To 11:17
It appears since you have followed this so closely you reside in one of the areas east of 95, LS or MN? At the time of the first boundary study the issue was predominately about Hayfield and SCSS not really LBSS. (Will have to check that out further.) Understand your statments but you do live closer to Hayfield than they to LBSS and we do have the empty seats. Not saying we want an onslaught of students. The area you seem to dislike so much, Silverbrook, is very close to SC, far from Hayfield per their comments and also a distance from LBSS. Granted others go to LBSS down 123 per this blog, but they have been going there for years and in that pyramid and were going there before SCSS was built.
FCPS should do a county wide boundary study for all levels by an independent group and just live with it. Also, get rid of earmarks, staff by ratios for esol/FRPM, determine full day K by the same ratios , give non-qualifing schools SACC to get full day K if space or trailers permit, put IB only at 3 schools, etc. More people would be happy since many school boundaries would stay the same and we would have lower property taxes.
HF needs more HS kids and the only place they can come from in this study in Lorton Station unless you count the handful of families in Mason Neck. For the SC to HF it is simply a matter of carving out the right amount of Lorton Station to bring HF to the 85-93% capacity the School directed. The more kids HF takes the less flexiblity there will be when the LHES study takes place in a couple of years.
The SB/NF move is much more complicated and political. It is complicated by the fact that the space at LB is projected and not yet real. Projections have been historically off so it is difficult to trust them -- even doing the math myself I didn't really trust the data I started with. That move can be delayed, but with the ever growing SCSS population something has to take effect next year.
LB and HF should get their choice of teachers from SC. Dale R will certainly fight to keep the best (and he should) and rid himself of the problem teachers (if there are any). It might be a good time to promote him and create some chaos in SCSS for awhile.
12:50
Great, lets open another bag of worms.
The blog was starting to get repetitive and boring. Needed to spice it up again.
What is Dale R's opinion on which option is best for SCSS and the region? Has he shared?
LBSS principal has been open about "not enough room" and HFSS principal is claiming "gag order" so what does the SCSS principal have to say? Anyone want to put words in his mouth?
I think South County should change the name.
Yup, Lorton High School sounds good to me! After all, it IS in Lorton.
You mean, Lorton Prison High School!
I think it should be called Bradsher High School. After all, Liz was paramount in the public-private partnership that got South County built.
How about Don Rumsfeld High School? Albo Middle School?
Most Lorton Station ES will probably end up back at Hayfield so Lorton High School will be too confusing.
Mason Neck High School would fit best. They did most of the work to get the school in place.
I think Dale R likes 2b.
Everybody except part of Silverbrook likes 2B. :)
who is Liz Bradsher?
SCSS is fine. However the Mason Neck population did very little to get the school built.
Yes we all know the original mantra. SCSS was built solely through the efforts of Crosspointe and Barrington.
Will someone please go to the south county ferderation meeting with the SB members and propose the CA option!!!!
When is it and where? We should ALL be there.
I'm really tired of all you Alexandria and Lorton Station people blaming the Silverbrook area gor all of the South County woes. Without us, we would all be stuck in an overcrowded school.
9:54-You are so right! As soon as the Silverbrook area sticks up for itself, the Alexandria and Lorton Station group attack them. I have read the blogs here and they are real mean & nasty towards the Silverbrook group.
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/requests.htm
12 Dec
School Board update at South County Federation meeting, Lorton Station Elementary School, 7:30 p.m.
See you all there!
9:54 You are still in an overcrowded school. If Mason Neck, Fairfax Station, and Crosspointe did not get together and get SCSS built we would certainly all be in an overcrowded Hayfield. However too many students left HF and we need some back. Hayfield would like to help by bringing several of the students back to Hayfield. These students will certainly come from Lorton Station ES. Unfortunatley, we cannot take enough to fix the problem at SCSS. You will probably have to continue overcrowded until room at LB is freed up or you buy a Middle School. It shouldn't be that way, but it is reality.
I'm from Newington Forest. I wish I had found this site a month ago, but better late than never.
If you look at Option 2A vs 2B maps, it is more logical to implement 2B. If the northwest section of the Silverbrook cachement is redistricted to Lake Braddock, the LB boundary still looks like a common-sense design. Lake Braddock boundaries abut bout the north and western edges of Silverbrook.
If you look at the Option 2A plan, it just extends a long, skinny peninsula that already is gerrymandered.
11/18/2006 10:17 AM, 2A is much better! It will not create a new split feeder school and your surrounding communities already go to Lake Braddock. It also, keeps silverbrook road from being split down the center, with one side of the road going to South County and the other side going to Lake Braddock.
Wrong, our surrounding communities do not all go to Lake Braddock, only the community to the west. The communities to the east and north of us go to West Springfield. South of us continues to be South County.
OTOH, your area shares the Lake Braddock boundary on 2 sides. It makes a lot more sense to redistrict part of Silverbrook.
BTW, it wasn't just Silverbrook people who fought for South County. Our area is a lot older than yours, and we've been involved with new school planning before your neighborhoods were even built.
2B is the way to go, but the space will not be available at LB for a couple of years so the move needs to wait. It can be done in conjunction with the Laurel Hills ES study (won't that be fun). When that happens they should be able to reduce the size of Silvebrook ES to the point where ALL of it can go to LB and avoid the split feeder problem. It is too bad that they will not be able to go to SC that is so close, but there just is not enough room.
Maybe when the MS is done in 2015 they could come back.
ok, but in the mean time an administrative adjustment moving some of Silverbrook to Sangster would help. It would help Silverbrook ES with overcrowding and start phasing some kids out of SC and into LB - small numbers but it will help alot in the long run.
First you're trying to kick us out of SC.
Now you're trying to boot Silverbrook out Fairfax Station completely?
If Silverbrook should be redistricted, our kids should be sent to the undercapacity school in the SAME neighborhood. This would be Halley. Both Halley and Silverbrook are in Crosspointe.
11:10am, It makes sense to send an entire school to Lake Braddock, than to split up an elementary school. Silverbrook road should not be divided down the center to move students to Lake Braddock. Ox road is much larger than Silverbrook Rd, so the division is not a big deal. Besides, those communities are small on the other side of Ox Rd. and they feed into Sangster. So 2A is a better option! Hey you have your opinion, & I have mine!!!
Hey Bloggers,
When LHES is built, you still will have a lot of Fairfax Station kids at Silverbrook ES. Too many to send to Lake Braddock. The Fairfax Station area is big, not enough room at Lake Braddock for them!
I agree with the NF poster that 2B should be the SB choice for the reasons he stated AND the fact that 2B doesn't send as many kids to LB as does 2A.
The part of Silverbrook that has been proposed to go to LB should stay at Silverbrook/LBSS. The other part should be redistricted to Halley/SCSS.
Since when do you let your kids cross Silverbrook Rd. by themselves? It is a dangerous, fast road with too few lights and no crosswalks. I live on the south side of Crosspointe and I never let my kids cross over until they were in high school.
No 2A is the way to go! Besides the School Board is trying to get rid of split feeder schools. That's why Mason Neck will go back to Hayfield! The Silverbrook community agrees to keep Silverbrook ES together!
I thought the Silverbrook ES rode on the bus? I have never seen little kids cross Silverbrook RD.
Wrong!!!! The Silverbrook community is made up of individuals. I agree that most want to stay, but I know quite a few who want to go to LB themselves or want the northwest parts of Silverbrook go to LB.
Mason Neck is too far away to go to Hayfield. The area looks large on the map, but the number of families there are small. We would be welcomed back at HF, but we worked too hard to get SC built and worked too hard to get into SC to add another 5-6 hours (before BRAC traffic) to the kids week.
The Mason Neck number of kids is so small that it has almost no impact on the overall numbers. The split feed out of Gunston works well.
About the only way to keep Silverbrook all at SC is to build a Middle School. They can stay at SC in an overcrowded situation for only so long.
These kids should be given the option to pupil place ANYWHWERE they want to go without restrictions.
Well if live in the Silverbrook community and would like to go to Lake Braddock, please go. But I live in the Sivlerbrook community and I want to stay at South County. Why should the Silverbrook community go to Lake Braddock & put it over capacity, along with a longer commute, when the SC is right down the road!! Yes it will be over capacity too. But Lake Braddock is too far. They didn't create this mess so why should that school get over capacity! The students are from Hayfield, and Hayfeild need SOME back! I feel MOST of Silverbrook belives this or they wouldn't be fighting so hard to stay at South County!
Any solution must include Silverline Road staying at Silverbrook and South County SS.
Since few people IN SC want to get redistricted OUT of SC, I think Option 1 should seriously be considered. I would much rather have my kids go to a more distant school for 2 years of ms and come to nearby SCHS for 4 years of hs.
Is Silverline Liz's street? :)
The space is not yet available at LBSS for SB to go yet. You might as well stay at an overcrowded SCSS then to make LBSS overcrowded as well. The FCPS should not make all three school overcrowded in this study!
The delay in Option #3 is fine for now. Send some to HF and leave LB alone for a couple of years, but the reality is something will have to give. Either a MS comes along or SB will get to become Bruins. It won't be that bad.
Option 1 makes all 3 schools undercapacity and it preserves the SC boundary/socioeconomic indicators. It also is a quicker road to a ms.
Why should Silverbrook go to LB? Newington Forest is also in that study! It's not just 2b! 2a works just as well!
Actually 2A sends more kids to LB than does 2B. I'm sure LB would prefer that?
I think most people prefer 2B because it keeps the F/R Lunch and ESOL indicators fairly stable. We do not need another Langley HS in this part of the county.
Option #1 makes the Middle School at Hayfield at 156% capacity and leaves the high school without the High School students it needs. It creates extensive pain and shares it with everyone. True, the pain is for everyone but creating pain is just silly and stupid. Furthermore, the room does not exist yet at LBSS. It may exist some day, but we need to wait and see.
It was seriously considered because it provided a way to use the space and not change boundaries, however it has been determined to be a TERRIBLE option in terms of education and transportation. Teachers, principals, the community, facilities plannes, students, all who have studied it seriously find it awful. Please do not make us all get on that bus to Abiliene.
All that said, there might be a way to leave SC as a Secondary School by moving kids from LS to HF for 7-12 and use the option #1 for SC/NF to LB. That keeps all of SB and NF at SC for High School and gives HF the HS students it needs. It also moves out some of the LS kids that SC doesn't want.
I think that Hayfield sees 2A and 2B as one in the same as well as SB and NF. They use them interchangeably. It is really just "Option #2" to them and I doubt they care. All they care is that they get gets for all six years.
I don't like Option 1 but F&P sure does! Option 2B is the best option to implement starting with AY 067-08 for the 7th and 9th graders.
12:51, I have never seen Option 2 used interchangably. Hayfield parents want to see the SB vote fairly as to the best option for all 3 schools, not just our own. I like 2B. I think it is a fiscal waste otherwise.
We will see what F&P reccomends on 21 Dec, but I doubt it will be Option #1. I think it will be Option #3 or some variation of it. They seemed to be willing to wait for a couple of years and see if the space they predict will be at LBSS really shows up.
I hope that HF gets enough kids (but not too many) that during Phase II will not be impacted unless we are forced into being over capacity. Currently Option #3 sends HF kids with the consideration for sending them back to SC in two years. I say just leave those kids alone for now and not jerk them around.
Those kids in Mason Neck and anyone that could be going to Halley or Laurel Hills ES should stay at SC.
Sounds as if you want to only keep the well-ff kids at SC and redistrict the more diverse population. Is that why you prefer 2A over 2B?
After the LHES boundary study is complete and we see what happens with the LBSS population we will be in a better position to decide who (if anyone) has the privilege of becoming a Bruin and who must remain a Stallion.
To look at the LBSS population, figure out the number of 6th graders who are in its feeder schools and GT Center feeders. Get the last year population's of 6th graders and compare it to this year's LB 7th graders. If there is a significant difference between 05/06 6th graders and 06/07 7th graders, figure out the percentage of difference and multiply it by this year's 6th graders to get a good idea of next year's 7th. Do the same with LB's 8th and 9th graders to see if there is a significant change from ms to hs.
LB is a very old, established area. There is not a lot of room for infill development.
I want to see more Fairfax Station kids in Lake Braddock. My kids come from a lot further distance to attend LB than ANY Siverbrook kid.
So go and leave the Silverbrook Community alone. We want to go to the school that is down our main road, less than 2 miles away. Leave us alone.
Everybody in this boundary study has a voice. Some of Lorton Station doesn't want to go to Hayfield anymore than some of Silverbrook doesn't want to go to Lake Braddock.
The point is that South County is overcrowded and the only way to alleviate that situation is to send kids to both Hayfield AND Lake Braddock.
4:02, That will give you a good estimate, but when HF did that after their renovations they were off by over 200 students. Former pupil placed, former private school, and just those that did not go to private school for HS were much more numerous than expected.
After sending so many teachers to SC so they could open it was quite exciting to get classes staffed and ready to go.
That is why it is a good idea to stagger the moves out of SC as in Option #3.
It will also be fun and exciting to see how NF and SB battle it out to see who wins SC and who wins LB. I think maybe some from both could go for 7th and 8th grade and just leave the the SC 7th and 8th grade for the Lorton and Halley kids that remain.
Then they should multiply the ratio by which they were off to the current projection. Example, if 800 kids came and they were only expecting 600, multiply the current 6th grade class by 800/600=4/3=133%. That should be a big buffer.
I think Option 3 does a disservice to the current SC kids who are going to stay at SC no matter what due to geographic proximity. Because the activists on the east and west peripheries of the SC cachement area are so caught up in themselves, they are willing to destroy a perfectly good school by overcrowding.
Some of Lorton Station already goes to Hayfield and all of them went to Hayfield just a few years ago. HF wants High School kids and will welcome them back. Of course they don't want to go back -- especially when they are told they may return to SC again. Nonetheless they will be welcomed with open arms at HF(until the inn is full- then it is back out to the manger/trailer).
It is a much different situation on the move of SB/NF to LBSS. The LB principal and the community have been vocal about not wanting anymore students. If/when that move happens it will be much more painful.
It does no good to move kids from an overcrowded SC to make LB (or HF) overcrowded. They might as well stay in trailers nearby.
No option made Lake Braddock overcrowded. No option made Hayfield overcrowded (but Option 3 came close). No option reduces the overcapacity at South County except Option 1.
Perhaps Silvebrook should be sent back to Hayfield.
11/18/2006 6:57 PM,
I think that would be nice! All of Silverbrook could go to a school that is not crowded And then LS,LH,NF,&MN could all be loaded into SC nice & crowed! But we live too far from Hayfield for that to happen. Nice thought!
Newington Forest should be going to LB under Option 2A. Their kids aren't really contributing in a positive way to SC and their parents are uninvolved.
That is not true! All student and parents are contributing to SC. I live in the Silverbrook community and I feel everyone at South County is making that school great. That was just a really rude remark!
Take a look at the team captains and club presidents. Examine the roster of the PTSA. It is the truth.
Stop making trouble, you just want to get reactions from the bloggers! Stick to the facts, don't make up stupid lies!
Those are the facts. We built SC through the private-public partnership. Don't you know the history? The Silverbrook community is entitled to the privilege of staying at South County.
8:06,
You really need to be a little more discreet with your comments. This is not the way to get people to see your side.
8:06,
Stop making trouble. The silverbrook community doesn't feel that way! You are just trying to get bloggers to get mad at a certain group! Let's get back to the real issue, how to deal with the capacity at the schools!
It seems as if there is no one voice for any community, including the ones that comprise South County. I have seen lots of posts on this blog and others discussing Silverbrook and the way certain members are afraid to speak out publically.
Once again, people are being called troublemakers for writing how they feel. I don't agree with all the comments that I have read. However, the commenter does have a right to write his/her opinions.
For some at SCSS the school defines the community. Halley [prior to administrative bounadry chnages]and Gunston have large boundaries and more independent, unalligned households. Silverbrook has lots of people whose first identifyer is their large HOA - the new suburban village. Silverbrook is a huge school so statistically it would have more people represented in all areas. Plus PTA's tend to repeat on themselves.
There are multiple HOAs that make up Silverbrook. There are the ones in Fairfax Station where Silverbrook is actually located. There are other subdivisions hat attend Silverbrook that are located in Lotron Station.
Seems to me that the Lorton Station Slverbrookers should be going to South County (also located in Lorton) while the Fairfax Station Silverbrookers should be attending Lake Braddock.
True, the Silverbrook ES has many subdivisions that attend the ES. Laurel Hill, in Lorton, and then the Fairfax Station area. When Laurel Hill ES is built, the Lorton area will leave Silverbrook ES. Fairfax Station kids will be attending that school. There will be way too many kids to send to Lake Braddock! Option 2B splits Silverbrook rd down the middle, creating a split feeder school at Silverbrook ES. This is not good! The School Board would like to get rid of split feeder schools not create new ones. The Fairfax Station area is too big to send to Lake Braddock.
The villages of "South Oaks Run" and "Barrington" at least should be at LB. That Newington Forest finger plus other portions could be at Hayfield. There are FX Station people who did not feel the impacts of the prison that have capitalized upon the momentum of Laurel Hill/Lorton for their own benefit. Yeah Mason Neck could go to Hayfield but the spirit of the Lorton transformation should drive these boundaries not opportunists.
Lots of big elementary schools have split feeders. That includes the new ones which are built to house at a maximum over 1000 kids. FCPS gets economy of scale with these big schools for overhead and operating costs. The core capacity is larger than found at old middle schools. They could even turn a Fort Belvoir into a middle school and build 2 new elemntary schools.
Over 1/4 of the FCPS schools are split feeders, both at the elementary and middle school level. If they were so bad, FCPS wouldn't have any.
Should this county build an politically motivated middle school or provide mental health care? Should it have more affordable housing for people like teachers? Should it have increased funding for SACC as opposed to the more expensive alternative full day K at certain locations? Do we need any more tragedies such as that for our police at the Sully Station? Think about where money is coming from :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/18/AR2006111800962.html
Fairfax should not be building another middle school until the OC numbers at SC exceed the number of empty seats at Hayfield and Braddock.
Option 1!
I like 2B or not 2B better....
9:00 AM,
You ask some interesting questions, but the answer is obvious. Build a Middle School!
Option #1 puts the Hayfield Middle School at 156% capacity and probably does the same thing to LB.
8:58 AM
Split feeders are not all bad I agree. They should be minimized, but it is not a crisis for an Elementary School or even a stand alone Middle School. However, I would NEVER allow a split feeder from a Middle School that is part of a Secondary School. In fact, even having a GTC in a Secondary School is questionable.
So 2B it is. It is the best of all the options.
Why 2B and not 2A? 2B or 2A have about the same impact on LB and HF, just different kids go to LB.
The decision of NF or SC to LB should be delayed until LB has the space. To do it now would just have them go from trailers at SC to trailers at LB. That is just silly.
Two years ago at the first SCSS boundary study, the projected numbers for Lake Braddock showed a steady decline. Two years later, that decline in numbers is the same. We have already waited two years, why wait longer? Don't forget 2A and 2B are phase-ins starting with only grades 7 and 9 next year. When the phase-in is complete, Lake Braddock will still only be at 92% capacity, so there is room for error, and no need for trailers. Why would I, as a tax payer, leave Lake Braddock approx. 20% under-capacity, and then pay for a new middle school?
Why would you as a tax payer leave Mt. Vernon empty, pay for renovations and additional seats when not needed at schools across this county? Why would you place students in a school that showed an increase in enrollment, such as LBSS instead a decrease as predicted by Facilities this year? (They had 135 students more this year than anticipated.) Why would you write such inaccurate statements on this blog and upset students and their families? Is it for spite???
You might be able to start phasing in 7th graders to LB next year, but to move 7th and 9th is too risky. There should be no moves done that have any risk of moving LB or HF over 93% capacity.
It does make sense to do an admin move of some of Silverbrook to Sangster/LB. That will help SC and LB in the long run, avoid the split feeder, and make the LHES study more complete and effective.
Mount Vernon should be included in Phase II of the study. However, there really isn't anyone nearby that you can move in unless you use schools from the HF pyramid. If you do that you need to include Edison/Lee/WSHS to move someone into HF. Do we really want to do that? It looks ok on the map, but what a pain.
9:12 AM
Hayfield was predicted to have a drop by F&P and had an increase as well. That is why we are concerned about taking too many kids (as in Option #1 and #3). Even Option #2 puts HF dangerously close to overcrowding. LB and HF need to have the "buffer" as we are not equipped to handle the excess like SC is equipped.
I know that concerned tax payers will question the "buffer" however, having seen this work/fail before the buffer will be on paper only. The reality will be there won't be really be a buffer.
I feel as a Tax payer, I would like to see Mount Vernon included in this study. Lake Braddock's capacity is too risky!! Many commnuities can go to Mount Vernon, its right up Richmond Hwy! It has been said in many boundary meeting, MANY communities have LONG bus rides to school. Let's use Mount Vernon - they have the empty seats NOW!!!!
9:12 - I have no problem using Mt. Vernon, or even West Potomac for that matter. Go ask the school board why they didn't include them in the first SCSS boundary study. We all questioned them, many times, and were never happy with their answers. However, 10:23 is right, if you include them now, you would have to include many other schools again, and who wants that? Despite what you say, Lake Braddock has the room. WSHS had to take on 200 more students when they were already at 100%, what is so special about Lake Braddock that 92% isn't good enough? This is nothing more than South County trying to get a middle school.
9:12 - You may want to ask the LBSS principal how many pupil-placements she accepted this year. That may account for your extra 135 kids.
It seems to me 9:12 is the only one that seems to make sense on this blog!
Why, are you 9:12?
No!, but they bring up some good points.
Like?
OK. Two years from now when the School Board is deciding between moving NF or part of SB to LB, who should go? Why?
Who will go and why?
12:44 - I really don't care who, the school board just needs to make a decision, and not in two years, they should do it now. Why? Because SCSS is overcrowded and kids need to move out. Hayfield is taking a large portion of SCSS students, but can't take them all. LBSS has space. It's just math.
12:49 PM
Have you seen the space Lake Braddock has? If you use 2a/b the school will be overcrowed! Look at the hand outs. The school board was very good about not letting the public see the capacity from 07/08 thru 11/12. You may want to move the modulars from South County to Lake Braddock. That is why they should wait. Hayfield is having problems with the 95% capacity, well Lake Braddock will be at 98% or over for a while! That is why Mount Vernon should be used! I feel as a tax payer, I would like to see schools with empty seats being used now! Lake Braddock's middle school is pretty much at capacity now, wait until you put SC middle school in that school!
Fine, use Mt. Vernon, good idea. Do a county-wide boundary change if you like. I personally don't want one, but if it solves the problems, ok by me. Use West Potomac, Annandale, whatever school you like, just use the empty space. As a tax-payer, I have a problem with building a middle school while there is so much empty space. I also have a problem with so many pupil-placements into LBSS, and then LBSS claiming they are getting more students than predicted. Send the students back to their home schools and solve the SCSS overcrowding issues.
I agree, a county wide boundary study/change would be great. I live is the SB area, and if it fixes the school and will not over crowed school, like LB, fine send SB! But I feel sending students to one overcrowed school will not fix the problem! The School Board has made a BIG mess of ALL the school, and its time to fix them!
Sorry about the typos above! But I still think we should do a county wide boundary study/change!
Also, there is nothing wrong with 98% capacity. So what if the school is at 98% capacity for a while. That is still under capacity! LBSS numbers are dropping, and both 2A and 2B puts them at approx 92% after the phase-in. Stop trying to make us think that there is something terrible about being at 98%. Tell that to the Woodson and WSHS people.
But what happens if the School Board numbers are wrong, and you need to kick out students, who do you kick out? Where do you send them? Back to South County? I would like the School Board to Wait and see what happens at Lake Braddock. Mount Vernon is never looked at, why?
Look, if you believe that the SB numbers are wrong, nothing can ever be done. How do you then trust any of the numbers in the future? We have already waited two years for LBSS. You could wait another two years, and still claim the numbers are wrong. How do you know Hayfield numbers will be ok? How does anything get done? There are never any guarantees, and if you are looking for one, I don't know what to say. I think the F&P numbers for LBSS are correct, SCSS needs relief, and LBSS and Hayfield are under capacity and should be used.
I believe we have seats at HSS & MV! Why should we OC LB? We can use seats we know are empty. I don't think its a good idea to use LB now. They don't have the capacity now! The South County students came from HSS, let's send SOME back. They are way under capacity.
No, SCSS students came from Hayfield, Lee, private schools and home schools. Also, people bought houses in the SCSS area once the boundarys were set. Mt. Vernon has high school space, but only 50 seats available in their middle school. The space is there at LBSS, and it should be used.
My concern with the second option presented at the last town meeting where it sent only students southeast of 95 to Hayfield and left all other students going to SCSS was that it left the school school still over capacity, 113% utilization. With the options presented, only the middle school option, moving 7th and 8th grade kids, to LB or Hayfield, brought SCSS under capacity. I rather have that option then re-write the boundaries, especially if we keep the push for a middle school.
That's it. This is all about making sure SCSS is under capacity, and gets a new middle school, even though the empty seats are out there. Use the empty seats, don't rip-off the tax-payer.
I agree. Use SCSS as its attended purpose, 9th-12th grade school. Unfortunately, 7th and 8th grade children will have to commute but hopefully it will be for a short time if the need and money can be raised for a middle school. Let's not reinvent the wheel, realign, boundaries and divide neighboring communities, if it is not necessary.
The way that you deal with the "wrong" numbers is to leave the 7-10% buffer that the school board dictates.
Here is what happens in two years:
1. The population at LB comes down much more than the community thinks it will and they will still deny it. However, it will not come down as much as F&P predicts. Both sides will say "I told you so"
2. The money for a Middle School will not be there yet, but they will be "closer" to a solution so there will be pressure to delay again (they will also use the F&P bad numbers from #1 as proof they were right).
3. One of the less vocal communities (probably from Halley) will have some kids moved to LB.
4. Mason Neck will still be as SC and the families of those @80 kids will be blamed for the "massive overcrowding" and there will be another failed attempt to kick them out of SC.
5. Hayfield will officially left out of the study, but they will send more kids there anyway.
6. There will be a sucessful attempt to move Hagel circle and other attendence islands to Gunston and Lorton Station during the LHES boundary study. Few people will notice and anyone who attempts to say something will be labeled "insensitive" or "racist". Those kids will go to Hayfield and push the numbers up over-capacity, but no one will admit it for 3-5 years.
5. Excel status will begin to fade away from Halley, but somehow they will somehow keep all day Kindergarten)
Option #1 overcrowds HF and LB! The Middle School at HF would be at 156% in option #1.
They could make Mount Vernon a Secondary School and have 7th and 8th graders feed from within and Walt Whitman. However, where would the kids come from? Gunston? Most of Gunston goes to Hayfield. So now you would need to move another ES to Hayfield in addition to Lorton Station. To do that you would have to move NF ... or Saratoga. Now it gets very complicated.
2:13 - In the first SCSS boundary study, the option of keeping South County as a high school was proposed and the Silverbrook/Halley/NF fought to have middle school students included. Now that it suits you, a high school is ok. Stop being so selfish. Option 1 is bad for Hayfield and Lake Braddock. This is not only about South County, it is about the two other schools in the study too.
Option #1 is bad for everyone; all Middle School students from all three areas, teachers, principals, taxpayers, and HS students from LB and HF. It looks too good to be true.
2:30 If it was just Halley/NF/Silverbrook it would not be overcrowded.
Wow, I did not know that. Would the high school be overcrowed as well or would it only then get over crowded when the new middle school kids getting shipped there go over to the high school side? I don't think that has been discussed nor has it been looked at by the county in its studies. Is LB like this as well?
2:50 - That is the only thing that will make you happy. SCSS for Silverbrook/Halley and NF only. That was your goal from the beginning. That is why you continue to claim LBSS does not have room, even though they have room, because you want SCSS for Silverbrook/Halley/NF. All your arguments are geared around that goal.
Laurel Hills also.
SCSS would not be crowded if it were only Halley, Gunston, Lorton Station, and Laurel Hills
Someone tell me who would go to Mount Vernon to relieve the crowding at SCSS? I don't get it.
Two years ago Gary said that the situation at Mount Vernon's capacity was going to change. I wonder what that meant two years ago and I wonder why nothing changed?
Gunston would go to MV and then you could move the rest of Lorton (after LHES) and Saratoga to HF. Then Newington to Lee.
That takes the kids from Lorton and NF out of SC.
How about if we move the South County Middle School to Mount Vernon?
6:05
That is brilliant, then you would have your Langley High of South County, with your golf course, and art gallery. Then all you need is to put up some gates with guards to make sure the rift raft,(you know the Newington forest parents that don't contribute to your school) stays out. Pretty soon you would have Senators and Congressman moving into the neighborhood to enjoy your ideal Shangrala world of South County. Although you would have to work on that name as people might mistaken the former "Lorton" area and Mason neck as belonging.
6:05
That is brilliant, then you would have your Langley High of South County, with your golf course, and art gallery. Then all you need is to put up some gates with guards to make sure the rift raft,(you know the Newington forest parents that don't contribute to your school) stays out. Pretty soon you would have Senators and Congressman moving into the neighborhood to enjoy your ideal Shangrala world of South County. Although you would have to work on that name as people might mistaken the former "Lorton" area and Mason neck as belonging.
6:05
That is brilliant, then you would have your Langley High of South County, with your golf course, and art gallery. Then all you need is to put up some gates with guards to make sure the rift raft,(you know the Newington forest parents that don't contribute to your school) stays out. Pretty soon you would have Senators and Congressman moving into the neighborhood to enjoy your ideal Shangrala world of South County. Although you would have to work on that name as people might mistaken the former "Lorton" area and Mason neck as belonging.
In answer to 3:14:
Not sure if you are talking about Hayfield or not, but allow me to reiterate the problem with Option 1.
Although Hayfield is a secondary school, our middle school and high school students are kept apart in two carefully delineated areas. They are almost separate buildings. The second floor of the middle school does not connect with the second floor of the high school. And both are separated entirely by the cafeteria, media center, music hallway and auditorium. If you overload the middle school side but leave the high school side small, Hayfield gets the worst of both. The middle school kids would have to mingle with high school students, and our high school would not gain any additional students to help us keep up our AP course offerings.
HF needs an additional number of students--one or two more teams on the middle school side, plus a few hundred high school students. We would like all of our students to remain proud Hawks for six years.
Lake Braddock must be filled as well as Hayfield. Like the Hawks, the Bruins have been suffering for a lack of students for its AP courses,its athletic squads and its clubs memberships.
As a Bruin dad, I would like to see 2B ratified by the FCPS School Board. It brings a smaller number of new students to LB while at the same time recognizing the space we have at Lake Braddock.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fairfaxfocus/2006/11/south_county_principal_earns_a.html
See how fast we can shut it down!
How about 2B, but only rising 7th graders and beyond?
Does that really help SC? I really think 2B should have 7th and 9th graders phased in.
It doesn't help SC that much in the short run, but it will in the long run. It also lets the population from the other feeders to LB come down.
I also think that once a kid starts in a school they should get to finish there if they want.
Why should they get to finish at a school if they started? If that's the case, all the options might as well be thrown out. What will happen is that kids who may get redistricted to Hayfield or LB in this study will just opt to stay at SC.
Rising 7th graders and beyond will take care of the situation in time. Must we always have instant gratification?
6:05 - Saratoga is not part of this study. Saratoga will not be shoved around so you can set up your "Langley" at South County. Most of us out there who embrace diversity. I guess you don't. Newington Forest not good enough? Sad.
Saratoga/Lee is not involved in this study, but it could be involved in phase II of the study. It is worth looking into.
Anyone know how the South County Middle School Acceleration Committee meeting at Laurel Hills Community Center went last night?
9:17 - You have plenty of options like 2B. You are only interested in keeping Silverbrook/Halley and perhaps NF at SCSS, while Lorton Station and Mason Neck go back to Hayfield. You will disrupt any neighborhood and/or school, even if they are not part of this study to satisfy your selfish agenda. Unbelievable!
NF not good enough. I feel like people are trying to get rid of the Southern part of the County. After all isn't Lorton Station, Mason Neck, Gunston, etc truly South County. After all, many of them have the same city and zip of the school. Why should they be shipped to a different school? Even if you ship them away it does not bring SCSS under capacity. Isnt' this the main issue, bring the school under capacity not getting rid of the students some may not want going there in the first place.
I think that getting rid of certain communities is more important to some people than overcrowding is. That is why you have this crazy NF to Lee plan out there.
ALL of Lorton Station to Hayfield. ALL of Newington Forest to Lake Braddock.
Silverbrook, Halley,and the Gunston-split should remain at SC.
Eliminat pupil-placements completely.
See what I mean!!!
It would be nice, but we cannot fit all of Lorton Station in Hayfield -- even after the LHES boundaries are complete. Lorton ES is 750 at full capacity (they are at 1100 now) so they will never be able to fit.
9:51 A liberal pupil placement policy will help overcrowding. Whay would you want to stop it? If kids from SC were allowed (or even encouraged) to pupil place to HF or LB that would help significantly.
Lee is right at or slightly above capacity. They are not in the study. Like Hayfield, Lee is more likely to be affected by BRAC than South County or Lake Braddock simply due to proximity.
Newington Forest "deserves" to be at SC as much as any other neighborhood.
I support Option 2B.
NF used to go to Lee and to Hayfield a few years ago. Why is the idea so crazy now?
Hayfield would probably welcome NF back, wouldn't Lee as well? Saratoga is closer to HF than NF so it looks good on a map. Why is this so awful?
Again, I don't think people are focusing on trying to get SCSS under capacity. I think ALL areas deserve to go to SCSS. Let us all just agree to use the school for its intended purpose, a secondary school only 9th through 12th. If we agree on that ALL areas in the study will get to send there children to SCSS at some point. I believe in the end all will be happy with that solution and we can then focus our time and energy on getting funding to build a middle school.
Those at SC that remember being at HF need to go by and check it out now. The renovations were finished the year you left the population went from way over crowded to undercapacity. You would love the return. You have never had the enjoyment of being in a school that is not overcrowded.
A good way to increase pupil=placement at Hayfield and Lake Braddock is to eliminate AP course offerings at South County. Either just have honors level through 12th grade or implement IB. Since both H/LB offer AP, the demand would increase for pp if SC didn't have it.
I don't think it is the school but the commute. As it is now children are getting on the bus at 6 am and with the development in the area and with changes at the base the traffic is worse than ever. Plus with all the new developments in SC the community does not fill like it belongs to Hayfield in Alexandria. It wants to expand its time, energy and dollars to the school a mile away from its community
10:05 Where would these Middle School kids go to school then? They will not fit in the Middle Schools at LB and HF for sure (it takes HF to 156%!), so then what? Option #1 makes EVERYONE unhappy and most importantly is certifiably bad for education. It also is by far the most expensive for transportation so it wastes tax $ to boot.
There needs to be a boundary change. Some will not like the change, but when they get to the new school they will be happy. In the Middle school option they just accept "Two years of misery" for SC and "permanent misery" for LB and SC.
10:03 - If you send Newington Forest to Lee now, you create an island. SHV used to go to Lee, and now goes to WSHS. Newington Forest does not share a boarder with Lee any more since the SHV move, and moving them to Lee would create an island, if you also move Saratoga to Hayfield. No, it does not look good on a map. If you are going to create an island anyway, why not send Newington Forest straight to Hayfield? Why disrupt Saratoga and Lee? However, I think NF should stay at SCSS or go to LB. Read 10:00am comments. Glad to see someone on this blog makes sense and is thinking ahead. I also like option 2B. By far the best option out there.
I live in one of the much-maligned Silverbrook areas. If SC was an IB school, I would be pupil-placing my kids to LB: longer commute or not.
BTW, is there a written study on how Option 1 scenarios are really bad for the students. I heard hearsay and educated opinions from psychologists via the Town Hall meeting. I'm curious if there has been actual research done on this.
10:24 - It's not going to happen. How many people pupil-place out of Robinson? Lee High School has more kids pupil-placing into the school than pupil-placing out, and that is another IB school. What facts are you basing your comments on?
Yes, it is bad to split feed MS students from a Secondary School. We saw it first hand in the couple of years before SCSS opened. all of the principals have agreed it is bad (LB has done so publically)
Besides, even if it was ok educationally, the LB and HF buildings were not designed to support that configuration. To make it work you would need trailers. Those SC kids might as well use the trailers at SC then to bus to LB and HF for trailers.
Maybe we should commission a 3-4 year study on Option #1 before we implement it?
It doesn't take a psycologist or a study to determine that Option #1 is bad for students - particularly at LB and HF. That is obvious.
Personally I would like to just end the boundary study and have my kids in trailers for a couple of years until a middle school is built. It keeps the community together, it does not overcrowd HF or LB middle school or high school and it keeps the County's focus on the need for a middle school in this area. Those schools were allowed to deal with trailers for a many, many years without disrupting their current boundary. Why are we not given that option?
And who would leave SCSS "as is" for the next 3-4 years while this study takes place? Think about the kids.
Hayfield needs and wants more High School kids and the number of kids at SCSS is continuing to grow. I agree that leaving trailers is ok, but send some of the Hawks back home before you explode.
Can we agree that eventually, this year or in two years someone from the Silverbrook area or Newington Forest will have to be redistricted to LBSS. I don't believe a free Middle school is going to suddenly appear and even if it does noone has raised the issue of operational cost for another building after the capital expense of building a new school. I just don't see how it makes any political sense. Bottom line, someone has got to go to LBSS eventually.
I agree to some degree on the comments. However, I don't feel many people living in Lorton Station feel like Hawks. I live there and to me that school is far away from our community. I don't feel like we fit in to Hayfield located in Alexandria. During traffic it can take up to 30 to 40 minuutes to get to the school. Not a community school.
This is why it makes just as much sense to keep Lorton Station and Mason Neck at SCSS as it does Silverbrook and Newington Forest. Both areas face similar traffic issues and both areas share issues of belonging to a community school. There is no one good solution to make all concerned happy so some from each side of SCSS will have to become a Bruin and a Hawk.
10:54 I doubt you will get agreement on that stance. The Mason Neck, Crosspointe, FFX Station and other communities were told that the school they have "did not have the number to support it" "not politically feasible" "not enough $ in the budget" and they got it built. They have learned how to make the system work and will not take "no" for an answer. I do not think they will have the $ for a MS in two years, but they will be close enough for another delay.
This time however there is a question if a middle school is needed now or ever will be do to available space at adjacent schools. Some will argue that a new middle school would be built not out of NEED but out of convenience for those in this area. I am not sure this is a good enough reason to build a school when I believe in 10-15 years from now SC and a new middle school would be under capacity. There is a reason why the middle school is on the CIP in 2015 not 2009. When the push for SCSS was on, Hayfield was packed and an urgent need was there. This time there is a solution but it is a solution that SC does not want to acknowledge because it would be inconvient. Its kind of like dealing with a child, once they get something once they want more and more.
The need for SCSS was questioned back when HF was overcrowded. The same issues and the same options were presented. The Hayfield pyramid solutions group was told "the numbers don't support a school in south county" while their kids were bussed for an hour to a school with trailers. Do not expect them to accept the "numbers don't support a Middle School" mantra now while their kids go to school in trailers.
There is some space in Hayfield, but not enough. There MAY be some space in LB in a few years, but not enough. The area is continuing to grow, more houses are being built, and many jobs are coming to the area.
Putting off the building a MS is akin to putting your head in the sand and ignoring the inevitable.
I don't believe they need a middle school. I'm sure the politicians will get the school built. As for the inevitable, SC should realize it's not an independent entity. Antics such as this will never result in more funding from Richmond. Remember jokes about government waste and the $1000 toilet seat? It is really sad.
None of the at-large school board members will ever be re-elected. Other members who would vote for that school will also not be re-elected. None have any bizarre bounty for their districts on the scope of that school. Building that could impact bond referendums passing.
After the debacle of SCSS only Gibson and Smith should even be allowed to remain since they were the only ones who voted Nay.
There is not enough space at just Hayfield or just Lake Braddock, but there is more than enough space if both schools are used as in Option 1, 2A, 2B.
There is not enough space to make option #1 work. The plan that F&P shows ignores how LB and HF are designed. "Excess space" for Middle schoolers is avaialbe but limited. It looks good on paper, but will not work in reality. Even if it worked physically, it will fail as an educational model. Kids will survive and victory delcared, but reality will be failure.
2A/B barely fit into Hayfield. They leave little room for the normal underestimating that F&P does; impacts of previous boundary changes to take effect, and several in-fill housing projects. Even by F&P estimates the Middle School at HF will be at capacity in these options. LB is at 97% now and only projected to have lower numbers. Making SB or NF fit into LB will be like packing a suit case with too many clothes. You make get the zipper closed, but your clothes will be a mess at the other end.
We need boundary changes, but we don't need to create three overcrowded schools out of one.
Newington Forest should go!
SC is for the Silverbrook Community!
If SC is for the Silverbrook community and Newington Forest should go, why doesn't the Silverbrook community get behind 2A? I don't understand it. It is Silverbrook who rejects 2A. If they got behind 2A, with their policical power, the school board would go for it.
They probably are behind 2A.
Wasn't Newington Forest one of the core communities that helped SC get built? That is what was said at the first round of boundary meetings two years ago.
1:21
Keep up an attitude like that and the SB may split feed you to LB.
The Silverbrook Community does not support 2A or 2B. They have supported Option 3 along with other area HOAS that are outside of the Silverbrook Community. They opposed all options during the first Town Meeting. Newington Forest and communities of Silverbrook have a long and positive history.
Does the Silverbrook community acknowledge that Option #3 overcrowds Hayfield?
Silverbrook does not support 2A, because they know they will be able to get option 3 through. That will keep the "core" communities together and they only have to take a small portion of Lorton Station. However, if you look at Gary's numbers SCSS 2015 numbers show 1310 for the middle school and 2593 for the high school, and that is with the current boundaries. If they build a 1300 seat middle school, they will have just the right numbers, 93 over in the high school is ok. Then, they will get Lorton Station and Gunston back. Is that what they really want? If they really wanted to keep Lorton Station out, wouldn't it be better to go with 2A and not build a middle school?
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