Due to overcrowding at South County Secondary School, school boundaries for Hayfield Secondary, Lake Braddock Secondary and South County Secondary Schools are once more in question. All affected communities are invited to two important town meetings -- one is this evening, Tuesday, October 10, and the next is on Wednesday, November 1, at 7:30 p.m., both at South County Secondary School's auditorium.
What’s happening to change it?
The Fairfax County School Board is reviewing at least two possible boundary scenarios: making a traditional boundary adjustment based on geography; or eliminating the middle school from South County Secondary and dividing the middle school population (projected at more than 1,000 students) between Hayfield Secondary and Lake Braddock Secondary Schools based on available seats at each school.
What are the desired outcomes?
- Hayfield Secondary School (HSS) should remain under capacity if boundaries are redrawn to allow for future growth. HSS was well over capacity for well over a decade!
- HSS should remain a balanced, diverse and desirable community school, with only elementary schools in the immediately surrounding neighborhoods feeding the school.
- Students should stay at HSS for all six years of middle and high school. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are secondary schools with carefully planned and separate spaces for middle school and high school populations. A large middle school population and a smaller high school population would be detrimental to the educational quality on both sides of the building.
- Transportation routes and bus ride time MUST be considered during the boundary-setting process.
- The school board MUST consider consequences from DoD’s Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process –– with a potential influx of 20,000 workers at Fort Belvoir over the next four years.
What about these town meetings?
Please plan to attend this evening's (Tuesday, October 10) meeting, and be sure to mark your calendar for the follow-up meeting on Wednesday, November 1. Each meeting begins at 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium of South County Secondary School, located at 8501 Silverbrook Rd., Lorton, VA 22079. The meetings will feature group discussions and breakout sessions so the school board can gather data and info from the affected communities. As parents, residents and voters, you are strongly encouraged to attend and prove to the school board that you have a vested interest in the educational needs of your children and the welfare of your community. That’s why it’s important to be there!
2,729 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1801 – 2000 of 2729 Newer› Newest»The only so called "construtive" solution in your eyes is to build a middle school. If you do not get the school then what is your solution. We all know what it is and each community involved does not want to be the ones to leave. I do not however feel that over crowding another school to relieve SCSS is constructive. Why was 2a or 2b not a construtive solution? Noone complained about the numbers going to Hayfield in the option 2 proposals. The only complaint was about getting redistricted to LBSS. Now that LBSS is out of the equation noone has a complaint about possibly overcrowding Hayfield again except those of us here in Hayfield. Why is Silverbrook or Newington Forest NOT speaking out against sending to many back to Hayfield, because it doesn't effect your area so you don't give a crap. You complain that MV is not considered in the study yet have no problem with leaving LBSS under capacity in the outyears.
Several days ago I posted a question to anyone blogging here from the Silverbrook or Newington Forest areas and got no reply. Now that I see a couple blogs today and yesterday from some Silverbrook folks I will ask again. If the recomendation to the board or even if the amend that recomendation to something like Option 3 will the South County community welcome back areas redistricted to Hayfield in the event a new middle school is built? Anyone?
You said it: outyears, What if the SB uses Lake Braddock next year and we overcrowd that school! If students are sent to Lake Braddock next year, they will be overcrowded and for many years out! Lake Braddock is over capacity now! Until the reno is completed, which only adds about 300 seats to the middle school, the kids are packed into that school. Oh, as long as Hayfield has enough room, it’s ok for other schools to be packed in! Let’s talk about lunch room, gyms, etc… It seems to me Hayfield can handle the extra load!
2:41-
This is a Hayfield blog. The author and main posterss are Hayfield biased. What do you expect?
3:30-
Yes, why wouldn't SCSS welcome people back?
Yes, they would be welcomed back! But I doubt if the Silverbrook area leaves, they would be welcomed back! Just read the posts about the Silverbrook community, it sounds pretty bad! Yes, we know this is a Hayfield Blog, and it we know how Hayfield feels about the Silverbrook community! You all have made your feelings very clear!
Look I have no problem with option 3. It gives us a chance to see it the projections and consultant numbers are off. But I have a problem of shifting more of the burden to Hayfield and possibly creating crowding back at Hayfield. I agree with you the fact that LBSS is crowded now, but indications are that will not be the case down the road. Again you did not answer my quetions. If a new middle school is built in 4-5 years will the areas redistricted to Hayfield next year be allowed to come back to the South County boundary? What we do option 3 and a middle school is built and opens in 5 years from now. According to the option three numbers Hayfield will be at 95%. Then we find out those numbers were off and Hayfield is back to 110 percent or higher. Would student then be redistricted back to SCSS?
Anyone west of I-95 would be welcome back.
If you could gurantee that areas redistricted to Hayfield would be put back in the event of a new middle school was built then I could support option three and would help you get a new school built. But I just don't see how that is possible with a School board going out in a year and Gary retiring. As far as Silverbrook is concerned I don't really think we have anything against you all, what you have read is reactions to statements by some in your community. Do you understand where we are coming from here at Hayfield? We don't want to be crowded just like you and LBSS don't want to be overcrowed. Option 3 numbers just puts Hayfield so close to full capacity that any error in projections, BRAC, and developement coming to this area we could be right back to trailers in the parking lot.
4:03
If you had more room to take more then just W-95 why would you not welcome them back?
Something you don't like about people East of 95?
2:46,
The new F&P option brings more students from Lorton Station AND it brings students from Halley. Based on where the Laurel Hills School will probably be built that will be a split feeder to Hayfield and SCSS as well. This is not just a Lorton Station ES move.
The new option takes Hayfield to within 250 students of 100% capacity and 75 over the number the Board established (2900) in May 06. With the continuation of students coming in form the last change (Rose Hill ES) and the in-fill projects in progress Hayfield SS will be over 3200 in 2011-2013.
SCSS remains over capacity unless another school is used. It would make no sense to move anymore to Hayfield. SCSS students might as well go to trailers nearby then to bus to trailers at Hayfield like they did a few years ago.
Stay at SCSS for now. Might as well stay at an overcrowded SCSS then to overcrowd Lake Braddock. However, if the numbers come down as predicted someone will need to go there.
Once the students from the Lorton Station area return to Hayfield they should not go back to SCSS unless Hayfield is over 95%. These kids have been pushed around and back and forth enough. HF, no SC, no HF, back to SC .. enough. Let them stay with us at HF.
In the case of Option 3 I think Hayfield would be over 95 percent in which case the should go back. This is why I support the plan as recommended. It keeps a buffer at Hayfield and keeps from having to bounce kids back to South County if a new school is built. If in fact the buffer turns out to be to big and does not get smaller in 5 years then Hayfield could be used againg to relieve overcrowding at its boader schools. This is kind of a wait and see approach for Hayfield like it is for LBSS. Sure some come back now, but just not too many!
Halley will not be split.
The shame is Lorton Valley goes back to Hayfield and they are far closer than those who live on the Neck. The Neck represents 100 kids not 70 as they stated incorrectly in 2005. If we are talking fair they should go back to Hayfield and thus those who live closer to SCSS should be going to SCSS instead of Hayfield. I live in the Silverbrook area, you know the area this blog has dragged through the mud of sping. We would like to see fairness for Lorton Valley.
Per the question should the MS be built would the community welcome other areas back, most certainly why wouldn't we?? It is a public school and areas who should attend should do so. If you asked this of our area civic leaders I believe they would say the same. A meeting with key community leaders might be a good thing and stop the rumors and accusations.
You anwered my question and I appreciate that and glad to hear it. However it leads to another. Your answer included, and I quote, "It is a public school and areas who should attend should do so" Which areas should attend if a new middle school is built?
I am sorry if your offended by some bloggers here, but I have seen some blogs coming from your area as well that in so many words come out against having certain areas with differing demographics in the SCSS boundary.
I am new to the blog but have read it. I am in the Hayfield Boundary and I am wondering if anyone here could agree that the numbers as recommend by Gary Thursday night are reasonble for Hayfield. I don't know the areas that are talked about here and I don't really care who comes to Hayfield just as long as Hayfield is not overcrowed. I think the recommendation is a fair compromise.
If a new MS is built it should respond to the need in the community and areas, if necessary, outside the community. If those areas include LS, Saratoga, Lorton Valley, Silverbrook, Newington Forest, etc. then so be it. The MS should be built upon need for seats and also to relieve the building structure at SCSS. If they choose not to relieve the building then money will have to go into SCSS to address the 400+ overcapacity situation and add the labs, space needed for 7&8 graders. Per your comment about bloggers from my area siteing socio-demorgraphic concerns. I find this somewhat hard to believe. We all came from Hayfield, a diverse school. SCSS is very similar, 98% do not place an emphasis on this isssue of diversity. Diversity is the essence of the county we live in.
I don’t know if others are having a difficult time posting to this blog, but I am. The screen is all messed up under the post popup and it takes a long time to load!
I can not speak for the original poster of the blog above, but I would assume the areas that should go back to South County, if a middle school is built, would be the areas that are currently at South County. Maybe, other surrounding areas would also be able to go to S.C. and the middle school too. I think if that happens, a county wide boundary study should happen, I think one should happen with this one!
I agree 5:14. I think the areas currently at South County should be brought back if a new school is built unless the community is happy with Hayfield. I also agree a county wide boundary study should have been done now or even two years ago before South County opened.
Will LBSS not have 300 middle school seats after the renovation. Surely between Hayfield and LBSS the 400 overcapacity at SCSS can be taken care of. Why spend to add to SCSS when the county just spent $ on LBSS.
Because Robinson has too many modular units and as stated above from bloggers a County-wide boundary study should be done.
The problem with Lake Braddock, someone correct me if I’m wrong, is they are over capacity now. The 300 extra seats will be taken up by existing students. You will have extra seats available, but Lake Braddock, Silverbrook and Newington Forest are if you move someone over to Lake Braddock next year, they will be over capacity. Some students will probably go back to Lake Braddock, because they are in private school or something else. New students will move into that area, because of new housing and selling of existing homes. BRAC will impact all schools. Lake Braddock is still an unknown, we just want to wait. That means South County will be over capacity. Why should we overcrowd Lake Braddock too!
Good point. I believe Hayfield can certainly take more students than the new OPtion 3 is stateing. The Neck should be going back to Hayfield to help relieve SCSSS. This additional # will not result in an overload. As a result of them staying at SCSS little relief will be seen at SCSS. The Neck never wanted to go Mt. Vernon, they fought to stay at Hayfield.Do we thank Dan Storck for all this?
I'm 12:49 and this is in response to some posts inc 12/23/2006 1:32 PM .
There are people like myself posting on this board who are not in your section of this county. I am not from Woodson. We are alarmed that one area of the county is demanding a school after FCPS renovated and added bricks and mortar capacity to Lake Braddock. Those 300 new seats are serving GTC kids and some of them are from Robinson which got a modular as well as Irving which got more students via politics.
Check out the other boundary change on Jackson. That is a GTC change. Should the GTC kids be moved out of Frost and Kilmer or base school? In normal FCPS facilities operations they propose moving GTC kids and oddly enough the lack of a GTC program location change is resulting in Lake Braddock having an imbalance. I am not suggesting moving out Robinson but any South County base should be moved as well as Hayfield.
You cannot look at the location of schools alone since that is predicated upon where FCPS had the land to build them. With SC you cannot look at distance to the school alone because it has areas that border other jurisdictions.
I read the transportation study. Whitman is in the Sandburg attendance area and smaller than Sandburg. There is a mismatch of size for those ms/hs 's. There should be boundary changes and the Whitman building go to Sandburg and vice versa. Then both schools would have walkers.
Since Newington Forest has SC walkers those specific areas should not be moved out of SC. F&P has a location for Laurel HIll.
It is my impression that when posters say they are Silverbrook they are in the western barbell since the eastern section obviously will be removed.
5pm,
The numbers put forth by Gary this week are reasonable for Hayfield. They are slightly over what the board wanted, but it is workable as long as there are no more moved in. They could trade out one area for another and it would not matter to Hayfield, but what was presented is fine.
4:36
Halley will be split. Two of the four the attendance islands that go to Halley-SCSS will go to Halley-Hayfield now. There was so much confusion on the issue that I had Gary point on the map. I thought that Lorton Valley went to Halley also, but ... need to check that one.
--
LBSS is NOT overcapacity now. They are @ 93% and falling. If we want to wait a couple of years to be sure, ok. F&P has a history of guessing wrong and we don't want to keep changing things every couple of years. Same goes for Hayfield. Our friends in Lorton Station and Mason neck are closer to SCSS then they are to HF and want to stay. Let's move as few of them as we can and still have a right sized Hayfield.
Eventually, we will probably have to use LBSS, but we can wait a couple of years.
Why should Mason Neck return to Hayfield and not go to South County?? They are significantly closer to SCSS then to Hayfield. Lorton Station, while very close to SCSS, is much closer to Hayfield then Mason Neck.
The only reason I see for Mason Neck to go to Hayfield is to make a little (and just a little) more room for the area north of SCSS. However, their numbers are so small that I do not think that it is worth spending much time on it.
One reason to keep/rid Mason Neck is that they are very organized and will be instrumental in getting a MS. It will likely not happen without them. If you want a MS, keep them at SCSS. If you do not, then send them to Hayfield.
You hayfield bloggers need to understand the South County community and the Silverbrook community were once part of the Hayfield community for decades. That is part of our proud heritage together. We left because of distance and not diversity and left a great school that will only get better. Silverbrook now hopes to stay at a more diverse South County instead of going to a less diverse Lake Braddock for the same reason. DISTANCE.
Silverbrook has been very open and public with their reasons for wanting to stay together and would welcome anybody back just as any good Stallion, Bruin, or Hawk would.
5:59
You said correct you if you were wrong and you are worng. LBSS is full, but still only 92.4%. That is too full to send anyone, but they are falling and will be at 81% in four years (if you believe McKibbon and F&P).
We can start sending rising 7th graders now and let them be Bruins from the start or we can wait a couple of years to be sure that the numbers are falling and the jerk them out of of SCSS 7-8-9 in a couple of years. The Silverbrook and NF families want to wait and be sure.
7:56
I believe you, but at some point someone will probably have to switch from SCSS to LBSS attendance area. We can put it off for a couple of years, but ... it is likely to happen
You all need to realize you are just pawns in the school board's chess game. Did you hear Storck apologizing for the community this week or Center's condescending quotes about the your community behavior in the paper months ago?
You should stop fighting amongst yourselves and deal with the real problem and start with these two culprits for the entire mess they are responsible for.
8:11-
A big T to that
I hope this didn't post 2x!
7:57,
LB is at 1.02% now, they will go down to 93% when the reno is done. Check the fcps web for numbers. Here is the LB ms cap: 975 now, 1350 reno. HS 2725 cap. Unless the numbers are wrong on fcps web, thats what I got. Anyway, I feel the school board should wait on the LB move. Too many unknowns. This county needs a boundary study for all schools.
7:56
Yes, Silverbrook, we at Hayfield are aware that you were all members of the Hayfield community for many years.
If so many of you had not demanded to leave Hayfield two years ago--and if the school board had not caved in to every neighborhood with political clout--Hayfield would not be back in this situation again just two years later.
Because all of you clamored to leave, Hayfield lost not just students but staff. No, they didn't all go to South County, but Hayfield lost some good young teachers just because the student population dropped. And our guidance counselor staffing on the high school side now changes every year, which means that almost all of this year's seniors have counselors who hardly know them. With constant enrollment changes, this is going to go on for years.
We want stability.
Please remember that it wasn't the families from the immediate Hayfield/Kingstowne/Island Creek area who insisted on moving so many students OUT of Hayfield two years ago.
Hayfield is willing to take back a reasonable number of students. We don't want too many because our school property is adjacent to Fort Belvoir. Even without a lot of new students, traffic on Telegraph Road--one lane in each direction!--is going to be horrible. So BRAC has to be taken into account, as well as the new students from Virginia Hills (Rose Hill), and infill development.
No matter what happens in two years, we would like to be left out of it.
For that reason, we're willing to support the F&P recommendation even though it leaves Hayfield a bit over the school board's 90 percent number. Just don't drag us back into this in another two years.
Halley is not split in Option 3. Gary per usual is wrong. LS and Gunston remain split. All of Gunston should be going back too Hayfield. MN's bus pick-up times to Hayfield and SCSS are the same, no real amountable difference. Check the Transportation study for further information it points out glaring problematic issues with boundaries due to transportation routes.
Halley is not split in Option 3. Gary per usual is wrong. LS and Gunston remain split. All of Gunston should be going back too Hayfield. MN's bus pick-up times to Hayfield and SCSS are the same, no real amountable difference. Check the Transportation study for further information it points out glaring problematic issues with boundaries due to transportation routes.
8:49,
Who should have stayed?
8:49
Those that begged to go to SCSS and should have stayed at Hayfield are obvious the ones closer to Hayfield. ALl would agree that stability is important and you are correct. Just remember BRAC will impact all areas, SCSS, LBSS, WSHS, etc. Infill will impact all areas.
As for the blame for all of this upheaval and error please refer to your SB member and others that voted for this rather poor boundary. The voters have the power to change things, they should do so, in all affected districts not just Mt. Vernon/Lee but Springfield as well.
80% of Brac is coming to the Engineering Proving Grounds which is West of 95. Far more than is coming to Fort Belvoir.
Halley becomes a split feeder in options 2, 3, and the new option.
No it is not all Halley has east of I-95 is Hagle Circle.
Halley has three attendance islands east of I-95. The only one that will stay at SCSS is Hagel. The other two will return to Hayfield. This was done in expectation of eliminating the islands when they do the LHES boundary.
9:27 am,
Yes, that sounds correct! If you listen to the audio on the fcps web site, Gary said he is trying to balance between SCSS & Hayfield, as best as they can. I do think Hayfield got the short end of the stick, during the last boundary study. I blame the board for that one! Hopefully, this will be it for Hayfield. The only board member, who made any sense at the last board meeting, was Gibbson – I think it was him. He wants to do the best for the students.
You cannot "balance" between Hayfield and SCSS without making them both over 100%. The only way to balance student population is to include multiple attendence areas. If F&P numbers are correct, a perfect "balance" between LBSS-HF-SCSS would end up @ 95% (in 2011) at each of them. That is too full. FCPS would be better off with two at 90% and one at 100%.
Does part of the Lorton Valley area west if I-95 go to Halley? Will any of it now go to Hayfield?
We all know that Fairfax Station ie Silverbrook is adament about SC being ony for west of I95 neighborhoods no matter how crowded Hayfield gets due to BRAC.
We at Newington Forest are more inclusive.
Support 2B!
We all know that Fairfax Station ie Silverbrook is adament about SC being ony for west of I95 neighborhoods no matter how crowded Hayfield gets due to BRAC.
We at Newington Forest are more inclusive.
Support 2B!
Boy, that’s pretty BOLD of Newington Forest! I guess they feel they deserve to go the South County and kick out others. Hopefully the school board will do what’s best for the students, keeping communities together and trying to keep Hayfield and Lake Braddock under capacity. The best plan is to move students to Hayfield slowly and wait until we know the true capacity at Lake Braddock. I don’t think Fairfax Station is adamAnt about SC being only for the west of I95 neighborhoods.
9:10, are you kidding?
Bradsher et. al. are on record stating that I95 is a insurmountable boundary and that only the subdivisions west of it should be in the SC district.
What's best for the Hayfield, SC AND LB communities is to support option 2B. Hayfield and LB take their fair share of students and SC gets to a manageable number.
9:10, are you kidding?
Bradsher et. al. are on record stating that I95 is a insurmountable boundary and that only the subdivisions west of it should be in the SC district.
What's best for the Hayfield, SC AND LB communities is to support option 2B. Hayfield and LB take their fair share of students and SC gets to a manageable number.
Option 2b sends most of Lorton Station and all of Mason Neck to Hayfield, sounds like that keeps the west of I95 neighborhoods at South County! It keeps Newington Forest at South County. Works pretty good for Newington Forest. The school board needs to vote to keep communities together, and keep Hayfield at a capacity they can handle. Lake Braddock is an unknown, let’s wait!
I don't know about all of you but this process is extremely frustrating. We were told the reason for the second boundary study was to bring SCSS under capacity. The proposed recommendation by Gary is to keep SCSS overcapacity and reduce it by only 300 seats. Why did we do this study for 300 seats??? All this does is place Hayfield at almost over capacity for the high school and over cacpacity at the middle school. Then they do not use the space at LBSS. They want to do the wait and see. In my mind we are doing this backwards. LBSS should have students moved into it and the wait and see scenario should be for Hayfield. After all this is the area more likely to be hit harder by BRAC than LB. However, I think this whole process is very political and it will not happen this way. It is a shame we wasted any of our tax payers money for such a small reduction of students at SCSS. If they are not going to go with the most logical solution then they should do nothing. What is the difference if you have 15 or 20 trailors.
Mason Neck should stay at South County. All of Newington Forest should go to Lake Braddock.
12/27/2006 3:03 PM,
I guarantee we will do this whole process again, maybe next year or the year after that, or the year after that…., I’m sure it will include: SCSS, Hayfield, & Lake Braddock all over again – until they get it right (or wrong)!!
In order to get it right, we have to include more than SC, HF, and LB AND we need to look at the ES boundaries at the same time.
This is why I prefer the School Board to do nothing at this time. ALl they are doing is wasting tax payers dollars. Keep the existing communities together at all schools. Wait to see if teh community can find funding for a middle school. Give the communities atleast a year to two years. If they do not then revisit moving students to Hayfield or LB. By doing this it will allow us to see what will happen with BRAC as well as the attendance at these schools. It may even prevent us from having to do antoher boundary study. The County does not have a solution and they don't know what to do. So do nothing!!
Do you all realize we went through this whole process to only remove 247 students from the school. If this was not done to remove students from the east side of 95 then people and communities need to stand up and say do nothing or remove more students and send them to LB. This is a very poor recommendation to the school board.
while the study was desgined to help oc at sc, a side benfit is it helps HF with its shortage of high school studetns. if we are unwilling to fix sc right now, then we can still help hf.
also, this move results in over 500 student moving. 250 now, but the others will phase in over the next 3-4 years. saying 247 is true, but does not tell the whole story.
THat is fine for HF but the communities coming into HF are not going to be happy with the move. Wanting more students to fill sport teams should not be the deciding factor in moving students. The community moving in is not part of the HF community. They are closer to SC and have been involved in selecting colors and the amscot for SCSS as well as other programs.
Once you return to Hayfield it will be fine. It is not the Hayfield you left. It is renovated and no longer crowded as it was. You will appreciate the improvement over an overcrowded SCSS.
The rising 7th graders don't know any different. Some of Lorton Station still goes to Hayfield anyway.
If you are still concerned, speak up at the board meetings. Hayfield welcomes your return, but appreciates your concerns. HF is not "fighting" to get more kids, just opening the doors for SOME to return.
Thank you for your kind words. Many of us in Lorton Station feel our neighborhood shcoll is SCSS. We were involved in the process of setting up the school i.e. programs, colors, etc. The bus route to HF is going to be very long for a children and will in turn have a very early pick-up time. In addition, the time to travel there for sporting events and activities in the evening will take approximately 20 to 30 minutes and with both parents working the involvement can be limited. Our community has spoken up to the school board and our rep. Dan Stork. However, our concerns are being overlook with them wanting to remove a community from South Couty. Unfortunately we are a newer community and not as well organized as NF, SB or LB and that has hurt us and that is why we are the ones looking in at this point.
It's always tough when a school loses a part of it's student body. Gary's recommendation, however, is the best at this point in time. The whole Mason Neck isssue is another matter. All of Gunston and Lorton Station should both go to the same Secondaty School, which is Hayfield.
That is easy to say when you live in an area that will be going to the school. The recommendation made by Gary keeps the school at 117% capacity. It does not eliminate the overcrowding and only reduces it by 247 students. More students needs to go and LB needs to be used. However, like previously said these commnities were less organized and are the ones now leaving. If the school is still going to have trailers why make anyone leave. Just leave the boundaries as they are and do the wait and see option on both LB and HF.
I agree with 2:53 however I do not think the school board is going to allow SCSS to get even more crowded then it is now. They are looking at this as an emergency condition next year with the projected jumps in numbers at SCSS. I see nothing wrong with bringing some students back to Hayfield but worry that more then the current recommended may be forced back and Hayfield would soon be back to an overcrowded school. 90% was a safe buffer in the option 2 plans. I wish they could hold it at that while they do the wait and see for LB portion. If more then can come back then revisit it later.
I do feel for the communities involved being bounced back and forth.
You cannot fit all of Gunston and Lorton Station in Hayfield with out over crowding Hayfield is this want we want?
I agree with 5:01, let’s do the option 2 plan using part of Lorton Station and all of Mason Neck going to Hayfield. Since Lake Braddock is unknown, wait until the board can get a better look at the capacity at that school. This can be revisited when the Laurel Hill ES boundary is looked at. This way Hayfield can get students back gradually and Lake Braddock is not crowed at the beginning! I don’t see any reason why the school board won’t do this, it sounds like the best plan of all!
Option 2a reduces the SC population by the most. This is the option that should be suppoorted.
It would be best to delay the final decision until the LHES is complete. Then we could make all of LS to to HF. Gunston is fine as a split as Mason Neck should really stay at SCSS.
If we must do something now, lets do option 2, leave Mason Neck at SCSS and delay the decision of NF or Silverbrook until later. Once the LHES is set we can make better decisions. Maybe all of the "New Silverbrook" could go to LBSS.
I don't mind sending some to Hayfield now and maybe some more later. Just don't send some to HF, and then say "oh, oh" and make HF overcrowded or try and send some back to SCSS. MAKE SURE those returning to HF will get to stay! Send some more later, but stop the back and forth!
All of Newington Forest can fit in Lake Braddock with room to spare. There must be no delay on using LB. SC cannot be at 117% capacity when there are still empty seats at LB.
Lorton Station, Kenton Crossing, Gunston, etc are some of the closest communities to SCSS and yet we are the first to go. It does not make sense especially when removing these communities does not bring the school under capacity. I don't know why people do not want there kids to attend LB. They are ranked as one of the top schools in the County.
I agree with 8:12 am. LB needs to be used. If people use the agrument the school may get overcrowded then that same agrument needs to be used with HF. After all HF is more likely to be affected by BRAC.
LB is also one of the top-rated schools for gang activity and violent episodes. The LB Boundaries draw too many kids from iffy neighborhoods.
All the reason to send some nice kids from South County to Lake Braddock. Maybe they can set a good example for the trouble makers and make Lake Braddock an even better school.
We have earned the right to be at South County. It is too far for for our kids to travel to Lake Braddock.
Are you kidding 12:39 pm. The Washington Post just ranked local schools in this area and LB was 2nd behind Robinson. HF was in the 70 or 80s. If you look at the school profiles they compare this way
LB SErious Incidents 8 HF 14
LB Fights 15 HF 37
LB Other Weapons 2 HF 8
This should be a fair solution. No one wants to move, travel time is going to be long for however goes but both schools need to be used. The arguments can go both ways. Everyone deserves to go to SCSS and if you want to be technical SC would be defind as those living east of 95. That is truly SC.
It is not too far for other Fairfax station communities to drive by you on the way to Lake Braddock. You have no right over anyone else to attend South County.
According to:12/29/2006 1:55 PM
“ The Washington Post just ranked local schools in this area and LB was 2nd behind Robinson. HF was in the 70 or 80s.”
If that is true, BRAC would have a bigger impact on Lake Braddock, because of the ranking! Also Hayfield has about 900 empty seats and Lake Braddock, only about 300. If Hayfield had only 300 empty seats they would be screaming “don’t send us anymore kids”! Again Lake Braddock is an unknown! Why should we wait on Hayfield, they need students and it has nothing to do with “who has earned the right to stay at SC”. Let’s use the seats available at Hayfield, only what they can handle, and wait on Lake Braddock. The communities that are closest to Hayfield should go to Hayfield. I think it should be: part of Lorton Station and all of Mason Neck, but the board will decide! Oh and for the argument about Fairfax Station MUST go to Lake Braddock, because other Fairfax Station go to LB, that’s because they didn’t want to go to Hayfield! They are also in a different Elementary School! Don’t even think about sending us to Sangster!
The seats are going to be used at Hayfield but Hayfield should not be allowed to be over crowded again. I have no problem waiting to see what happens to attendance numbers at Lake Braddock fine wait. But the experts are saying Lake Braddock will have more room as the years go by. If a new middle school is not built someone has to leave South County from the western side of the boundary and it would be a travesty if Hayfield were returned to the days of trailers while more room opens up at Lake Braddock. I get your message, noone wants to go to Hayfield because we here have lower scores, higer demographics and discipline issues, but by returning too many and eventually overcrowding Hayfield again will only make the job of creating a better school harder. Maybe we should think about leaving South County even more crowded and sending more to Lake Braddock, since your schools are so saintly and good they can handle the higher population.
3:48
Some of the northern part of the Halley or Silverbrook ES should be going to Sangster and LBSS. Hopefully that can happen when they do the LHES boundary. If not, an admin move on board meeting could get it done. That would help Sangster, help LBSS, help Silverbrook ES, and help SCSS. A win win situation.
I don't care what what the Washington Post says!
Gary's option is a good one for Hayfield and it helps SCSS. It does not solve the OC, but it is a start. Rising 7 from Silverbrook or NF should be going to LBSS. The room is there and it will avoid the problem of sending 7-8-9 in a few years.
12/29/2006 6:30 PM,
I doubt that will happen, once Laurel Hill Elementary School is built, all of the Lorton students will leave Silverbrook Elementary School and go to Laurel Hill. Laurel Hill will also reduce capacity at Lorton Station and Halley. I think Sangster’s capacity is near full and they don’t want to overcrowd that school!
Would Lake Braddock prefer northern Silverbrook or Newington Forest ES as a feeder?
I think Lake Braddock would prefer not to overcrowd their school, so they can get out of the trailers they have there now.
The trailers are gone as of April.
Halley is UC. Silverbrook is OC. Both are in the same development of Crosspointe. It stands to reason to redistrict some of Silverbrook into Halley and thus SC. The rest of Silverbrook should got to LB.
Why should Silverbrook ES go to Lake Braddock when South County SS is less than 2 miles down Silverbrook Rd? Silverbrook ES belongs to South County SS, All people to the East of I95 need to go to Hayfield; that would solve the OC at South County SS!
Actual seats are there at Hayfield. 900+ actual empty seats NOW. The seats have yet to materialize at LBSS, and they might in the future. However the decision to releive SCSS is taking place NOW. The overcrowding was caused by a very poor decision recommended, in the end, by SB Dan Storck. Center agreed with Storck on this as did 7 other SB members. Belter did not. This decision only hurt the kids, the real pawns in all this. The situation at SCSS is bad. The SB was warned the 2005 boundary would causes an OC situation. Despite such warning MN was added at the last minute and again MN is being added despite others being closer to SCSS. MN should go out as well they are close to 100 students and Hayfield can handled this load, now and in the future. However, the recommendation to the SB has been made and there will be little if any changes due to past mistakes. The Board does not want any additional controversy.
A done deal.
we don't want a poor decision again. Do not bring too many back to Hayfield and crowd this school again. LBSS will have room, not now but it is coming. Yes bring some back to Hayfield but it would be irresponsible to send all of East of 95 back to Hayfield that is too many.
12:44
Mason Neck's 80-100 kids do not make SCSS over by 1000 and there are not 900+ seats available at Hayfield SS. You get the official blogger BS.
At 12/31/2006 7:54 AM,
Thanks for clearing that up for us!
You are so right; Hayfield doesn’t have 900 seats available, the have 920 seats to be exact!!! They are at 71% capacity.
Manson Neck’s 80-100 kids did not make SCSS over crowed and they will not make Hayfield over crowed!
Every little bit helps, that’s why Mason Neck should move to Hayfield.
I think you should get the Biggest blogger BS award!!!!
LB has room as of April when the renovation is finished. I believe that Newington Forest should attend LB instead of Silverbrook.
Despite what F&P recommends, the SB can still vote for one of the original options as in 2A.
Don't keep SC overcapacity as long as there are empty seats in LB.
Don't keep Robinson at over 4100 students with a modular as long as there is capacity as LBSSS.
Don't bus the Fairfax Station subdivision which is a boundary island to Woodson when it is closer to LBSS or Robinson.
Don't bus SCSS kids from Newington Forest or Silverbrook without first addressing such inconsistencies and inefficiencies with boundaries.
9:52,
How many kids should be sent to Lake Braddock?
Right now they are at 100% and when the renovation is completed they will have
265 seats available. Should the SB send 100, 200, 265 students to Lake Braddock?
What happens when students from their area go back to Lake Braddock and the school is over capacity?
Will the School Board send the students back to South County. Hayfield has 900+ seats,
How many seats should the SB leave open for Hayfield? 100, 200 or more? I think if Hayfield had
Only 265 seats available, the SB would not even consider this school! Lake Braddock is an unknown,
Lets wait until we know what the true capacity will be at that school. The FCPS web site has all this info.
Check it out!
FCPS needs a county wide boundary study and a moratorium on construction of additions and installing modulars until such a study is done. While I like the idea of sending some of Silverbrook to LB, FCPS should look at the big picture. Building the SC middle school is not a solution but rather a glaring example of the problem.
10:57,
About 500 more by 2013-14 should be sent to LBSS. LBSS has room to take an additional rising @70-75 7th graders next year and into the future. If we wait a couple of years we will have to jerk rising 8th and 9th graders out of SCSS.
About 500 (for 2011-12) should be sent to Hayfield as well. The room is available to send @250 rising 7-8-9 next year and the rest can come over the next 3 years. Gary's plan is pretty close, but will still likely put Hayfield OC in @ 4-5 years. Adding MN to the mix just makes it worse. MN is much closer to SC then HF and there is not room in the long run.
10:57
About 300-350 seats should be left open at Hayfield to address the planned in-fill growth project, predicted increase in students from feeder schools, and the remaining impact of boundary additions a few years ago.
This is not necessary at LBSS as the numbers are headed drastically down.
Sending students to Lake Braddock next year is a mistake! Gary knows this, which is why he has decided to wait! The SB knows this; hopefully they will choose to wait on Lake Braddock. As for Mason Neck, they use to go to Hayfield for 25+ years and they can still go to that school. Part of Gunston already is at Hayfield! Part of Lorton Station should stay at South County!
Gary made it very clear that Option 3 was a result of political pressure. Despite it being the official F&P recommendation, Gary said Option 3 was a waste of available resources.
Newington Forest is the only area in the Springfield zip code that goes to SC. Both Halley and Silverbrook are in the Fiarfax Station zip code and are both in SC.
Therefore NF should be redistricted out of SC into LB.
2:12 OK, Mason Neck attended HF for 25+ years, but almost all of the students that attend SCSS went to Hayfield.
9:14 Who cares what zip code we live in? Makes no difference for what school we go to.
How many students from Lorton Valley go to SCSS. Before sending MN to SCSS someone should answer the question on how many students from Lorton Valley go to SCSS. They are just down the road from SCSS and with Option 3 now going back to Hayfield. What are the mysterious #s Gary spoke of and why MN at SCSS. This means their bus will go through Hayfield boundaries? What makes the Neck teflon?
At 1/01/2007 10:39 AM,
It stinks, (I hope this won’t happen, but…) If the board decides to move all of Lorton Station to Hayfield and Silverbrook to Lake Braddock, they will be moving the two nearby schools out and they will leave Mason Neck at SCSS. Just think about that! Mason Neck was not supposed to go to SCSS, they got in at the last minute, and now the SB may kick out two neighboring schools and keep them in! Unbelievable!
People should speak up about that at the Public Hearing. 100 students from the Neck is at the very least 4 classrooms, 4 classrooms SCSS does not have. The question about Lorton Valley needs to be answered and some sense of fairness needs to take place with respect to Lorton Valley.
Why was the Neck placed back in when last time they were out? Who is paying who?
MN continually gets the royal treatment. The argument that "MN is closer to SCSS than HF" is gettig old. All the schools in the present SCSS boundary are closer to SCSS thatn any other secondary school. We must fix the Lorton Station and Gunston split feeders now by sendinmg them to HF.
Silverbrook is in Fairfax Station. It is not a neighboring school as compared to Newington Forest. There are no walkers to SC from the Silverbrook neighborhoods. Silverbrook should be going to Lake Braddock.
The issue is not about Silverbrook. According to the Transpotation Study the Silverbrook pop. could be walking to SCSS if sidewalks were available, the community is within the Secondary School walking distance. The issue is MN, the 100 students they add and this decision's implacations to other closer neighborhoods. Does $$$ talk?
Cro$$pointe and the re$t of $ilverbrook know all about $$$ talking.
Support Option 2B.
What area of Newington Forest walks to SCSS? Based on the boundary map, they don’t! (Post what streets walk to SCSS). Silverbrook is much closer to SCSS than Newington Forest, so Silverbrook should not go to Lake Braddock!
I live in the Halley area. Unless some oddity occurs, our area stays at SC no matter what. I think it unconscionable to let South County stay so overcrowded when there are empty seats at Lake Braddock AND Hayfield.
I say redistrict some Silverbrookers to Halley (thus balancing their OC with our UC). The former Silverbrook neighborhoods that would then be Halley would go to South County. All the remaining Silverbrook neighborhoods can go to Lake Braddock.
Actually, the proposed options make Halley a split feeder to Hayfield AND it is not over yet. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. More of Halley could end up at Hayfield to make room for those in the North Silverbrook ES area.
Also, all of the ES boundaries will go through a study before Laurel Hills ES opens. We can fight this split feeder thing all over again. :)
Mason Neck has just as much claim to SCSS as anyone. They are key to getting a Middle School built as well. Without the neck you will NEVER get a Middle School.
Current stats show that Silverbrook has TWO FRL students. TWO! There are 8 from Mason Neck that attend SCSS. If money talks then the Neck will be out of SCSS for sure.
Yes, Hayfield has 920 seats available & Lake Braddock will have 265 seats available. How many students should the SB send to Lake Braddock; 100, 200, 265 or more? Lake Braddock MAY have the seats later, Hayfield has real seats. Should we just send the OC problem to Lake Braddock? Lake Braddock is an unknown; we need to see what capacity the school will have! Use Hayfield now!
The School Board should just redistrict 2 grades to Lake Braddock next year: 7th and 9th.
Then in AY 08-09: 7-10 can be redistricted.
AY 09-10: 7-11th graders
AY 10-11 and beyond: 7th-12th graders.
That definitely errs on the side of caution.
Silverbrook students need to join their fellow FFX STA neighbors at lake Braddock.
7-8 would better than 7-9. If a student is going to end up at LBSS they might as well go right away. Don't leave them at SCSS knowing they will be going to LBSS anyway. If this was a stand alone Middle School I would agree, but since these are Secondary schools they need to just become Bruins and Hawks now.
6:23&8:24,
Actually that sounds real good!
But what works better, send Mason Neck to Hayfield they are not too far from Hayfield, about 7-8 miles away, and they would be getting back to the nest with their Gunston group! Newington Forest ES could go to Lake Braddock with 7&8 grades next year. They would be following with their neighbors who attend Lake Braddock already! They also, are just as close as the surrounding neighbors who are at Lake Braddock, and the School Board would not have to split up schools! Good idea, thanks!
8:24, I agree! The secondary school is a whole different ball game.
Your suggestion of adding 7th and 8th instead of 7th and 9th makes a lot of sense. The matriculation to LB would even be easier for LB to absorb:
07-8, 7th and 8th grade
08-09, 7th, 8th, 9th grades
etc to
11-12 finally all 6 grades
Mason Neck is a long way from Hayfield. The LHES boundary study will really screw up any attempts to fix split feeders so that argument is moot -- heck even Halley will be a split feeder now!
If Mason Neck returns to Hayfield part of the Halley and Lorton Station ES boundary areas that Gary is sending to Hayfield has to stay at SCSS. HF cannot take everything in Option #3 -- they will not all fit. It will bor a couple of years, but once the fullimpact takes over HF wil be >100%. Leaving Mason Neck at SCSS was a reasonable solution. Actually leaving Lorton Valley AND Mason Neck will still put HF at full capacity by 2011 or 2012. If the SB wants to get SCSS under capcity they have to use schools other than Hayfield.
Don't drink the "Hayfield has 920 seats" koolaid. It is a myth.
Hayfield has now the 920 empty seats. You want to leave empty seats because why???? A small % of seats should be left open but not 400+. There are seats at MT. Vernon that can handle additional load and the boundaries of that school West Po and perhaps Hayfield may need to be modified for future balance. These kids from SCSS came from Hayfield, 500 or so need to go back. Lay off the Kool-Aid and get into reality. Hayfield's cafeteria, core space can handle 4100. Not suggesting Hayfield be at 4100, but 3200 is more than reasonable.
A 10-15% buffer (@ 250-300) is necessary to leave room for the students from previous boundary changes and on going in-fill housing projects.
Hayfield cannot effeciently handle > 3200. It failed before with the 4100 and is doomed to fail again. 2800-2900 is about right with the ability to surge to 3100-3200.
This study should bring HSS to 2800-2900 like the board planned back in May. That is the most effecient use of the facilities.
Unfortunatly, the "buffer" the board wanted will be consumed in 4 years as the impact of adding Rose Hill ES and current construction in the area continues to impact enrollment.
I am not sure who started the "Hayfield has 920", but it is an exageration. F&P says there is 896 and will fall to 781 seats in 2011 if we do nothing. Gary's plan leaves 250 seats - well over the board's target of leaving 350 seats. These 250 seats will be consumed without question.
If you want to reduce OC at SCSS anymore we must use other schools or build another one.
8:34
Don't you get it. Noone cares if Hayfield gets overcrowded. Just put all those east of 95rs including the "rich" neckers in Hayfield so that SCSS and LBSS can be a comfortable place for the students to learn. Hayfield? who cares that school will never be any good. Bring back 104!
Well the board should support option 2A!
This way everybody is happy: Hayfield is under capacity, Part of Lorton Station is at SC & Silverbrook is not a split feeder. The only problem, the OC will be sent to Lake Braddock for a while. They will be at or over capacity for about 4 to 5 (or more) years. The hall, cafeteria, etc. can not handle a large group of kids. They only have 1 cafeteria and gym! I guess Lake Braddock will not be able to enjoy an empty school, like Hayfield did!
Sending just 2 grades (7th and 9th) worth of only the North Silverbrook kids will hardly overcrowd Lake Braddock in 07-08. It will not be overcrowded even if we sent all 6 grades there at once.
LB is built for over 4000 students. Implementing Option 2B will not harm the educational experience of present and future Bruins.
Option 2B is the worst of all plans the school board has presented! It will overcrowd Lake Braddock, and split up Silverbrook. This is not an option! The Silverbrook community will be at the public hearing and voicing their concerns!
10:16, no need to start screaming online. Silverbrook does not own the School Board.
Option 2B sends fewer kids to LB than Option 2A yet it reduces the overcapacity numbers of SC to a manageable number.
The School Board must vote for an option that provides the most good for ALL 3 schools involved. Option 2B is the answer.
At 1/02/2007 10:22 AM,
Actually, option 2A sends fewer kids to LB than Option 2B.
2A – 3948 kids to LB
2B – 3952 kids to LB
So, if what you are saying is: send fewer kids to LB & reduce the overcapacity numbers of SC to a manageable number; well option 2A is the answer!
Option 2B is uncomfortable for the Silverbrook community , but it is not the "worst option". It is the best of bad options. It will not overcrowd LBSS. If we want to be extra careful, just send the rising 7th graders.
We can avoid splitting the ES by sending ALL of them. After the LHES boundary is complete and Silverbrook ES has a much smaller population the entire school can go to LBSS.
Keep the "South" in South County!
2B, but leave Mason neck at SCSS.
Option 2B is bad!
For one, when LHES is built the Silverbrook community is a large population, you can not send the Entire school to LBSS, it will overcrowd that school! This option will create a new split feeder, which is bad for the Silverbrook community! If the school board should choose between option 2A & B, option 2A is the best! Mason Neck should never have gone to SC; they need to go back to Hayfield! Keep part of Lorton Station at SC!
Keep the “South” in South County, that’s just as bad as saying South County is a Lorton School. Enough is enough!
If Silverbrook is so large/OC, perhaps some should be redistricted immediately to Halley since that school is UC. More can attend LHES. Then all of the areas that remain in Silverbrook will have no problem fitting in at SC.
I just rechecked the FCPS.edu numbers for Option 2A and B.
2A
SC Capacity percentage 100.2%
LB 93.6%
2B
SC 101.4%
LB 92.9%
South County IS a Lorton School. Why is this bad?
Mason Neck SHOULD be at South County. It makes sense from a geographic standpoint, bus rides, and even demographics (they have more FRL then ALL of Silverbrook ES!)
Why should part of Lorton Station ES stay and not Gunston ES? These boundaries will all change with LHES anyway. The options presented so far all make Halley a split feeder as well.
The current option presented by Gary is sufficient for now. The choice of Silverbrook or Newington Forest can be delayed, but eventually it will have to be decided. Probably ought to just flip a coin on that decision.
This is easy if we were doing the Elementary boundaries now. Follow this. The neighborhoods of Barrington, South Run Oaks, and the Woods of South Run get redistricted to Sangster which feeds Lake Braddock. The rest of Silverbrook stays at South County but it would be smaller when Laurel Hills is built. Halley of course stays as is or even picks up some more from the Silverbrook area if more balance is needed. Lorton Station is split with the student North of Lorton Rd. going to Hafield and south of Lorton Rd. going to SCSS. Lorton Valley on the West side of 95 currently going Lorton Station Elementary would be redistricted to the new LHES or maybe to Halley and would go to South County. After those numbers are worked out then you could put Mason Neck at South county if room allows or back at Hayfield.
Problem solved.
How much space does Sangster have available? Has the board decided which ES will be in the boundary study when they create the LHES boundary?
I believe Sangster is about 100 undercapacity now. If the projections for LBSS are any indication of the school age population at LB then Sangster's population is also probably going down. As an alternative you could probably shift some of Newington forest boundary to Sangster and on to LBSS but I have not looked at a map to see if that would be logical from a geography standpoint.
As to your second question, No information that I know of indicates which schools would be involved in the LHES. Obviously Lorton Station ES, Silverbrook and Probably Halley will be involved. Beyond that who knows.
11:39 am,
Do you even know the neighborhoods in Fairfax Station?
Now you want to send Silverbrook to Sangster? Don’t think so, we are across the street from Silverbrook ES. Silverbrook should not be a split feeder school. Mason Neck should go back to Hayfield, Gunston is already at Hayfield! Besides why should Mason Neck drive by Lorton Station on there way to SC, when Lorton Station will have to be bussed to Hayfield! Sounds pretty stupid! By sending Silverbrook to Lake Braddock, the OC is just moved to that school. If Silverbrook is sent next year, Lake Braddock would be at or over capacity for a few years out!
At 1/02/2007 11:54 AM,
“Sangster is about 100 undercapacity now.”
Wow, that school sounds empty to me!
The Sangster seats are supposedly being saved for the Orange Hunt OC issue. Both Orange Hunt and Sangster school are in the Orange Hunt subdivision.
Halley has more room for Silverbrookers. Both Silverbrook and Halley are in the Crosspointe subdivision.
Nobody is recommending sending 3 or more grades of the North Silverbrook residents to Lake Braddock next year. Implementing 7th and 9th or 7th and 8th is a much slower, more gradual process.
Not one year shows LB being even close to overcapacity under Option 2A or 2B.
97-97% is pretty close to capacity. I know Hayfield would not stand for that! Lake Braddock is an unknown, it should not be used now!
Hayfield is going to take a direct hit with BRAC due to its proximity to Fort Belvoir. That is not the case with Lake Braddock. LB is known.
I guess they don't have a good math curriculum over at Silverbrook if you can't add and subtract numbers to find capacity.
97% is ok at LBSS. Their population is coming down so there is not much need to leave room. Also, they have a GTC taking up space that could be moved to make room for all of Silverbrook if the split feeder is still a problem
85-90% equates to 98%+ at Hayfield. Their numbers are trending up AND there are other factors sending more students to Hayfield that are not in the official numbers.
Moving to GTC to make room is a good idea! Where can we move it to that has space? Please don't say the new Middle School in South County!
11:57
Mason Neck driving passed and through Lorton Station on the way to SCSS makes perfect sense. It doesn't sound stupid at all. It certainly make more sense than driving all the way to MV or HF!
Keep the "South" in South County Secondary School!
At 1/02/2007 12:25 PM,
Here I will help you:
07/08 option 2A 3948 w/ a capacity of 4075 = .968 or 97%
07/08 option 2B 3952 w/ a capacity of 4075 = .969 or 97%
Gary has not posted what the numbers will be in 09 thru to 2011 (if so please tell me where the data is). Lake Braddock will get other students from: new homes, private school, home school, and other. That should put them at or over capacity.
12:36,
11/12 Option 2A 3814 with a capacity of 4075 = .936 or 94%
11/12 Option 2B 3784 with a capacity of 4075 = .929 or 93%
Definitely a downward trend even if Silverbrook is sent.
That is 2011-2012, maybe!
So we should OC Lake Braddock next year and a few years out! Lake Braddock is an unknown; we need to wait until the SB knows what the numbers will be at that school. BRAC will impact all schools. Too many unknown variables!
Even with the option 2 numbers at Lake Braddock will go down. Newington Forest and Silverbrook are built out so those numbers are known. According to projections by Facilities and an outside consultant Lake Braddock is losing students. The School board hired the consultant to do a job, are we to just ignore the facts. I see nothing wrong with the current recommedation to see if LBSS will continue to have room. But if it does then someone should go.
I agree, we should wait on Lake Braddock! If the numbers go down, great send SB or NF. Flip a coin, if that works! But if the SB sends students to that school next year and a few years out (where is the data), they will be at or over capacity!
We don't need to wait for LBSS. At least send the rising 7th graders - or how about rising 7th graders in AY08-09?. That will not OC LBSS in the short run.
The proposed option is ok, but I would like to see Lorton Valley stay at SCSS. They are just way too close to SCSS and that would ensure that HF is no OC in 2011.
Any bets on when this blog will hit 2000?
you keep asking for data, did the numbers in the outyears 2011 appear out of nothing. They are based on something and McKibbons data is nearly the same as the Facilities numbers. Waiting is ok, however I think starting with just 7th grade is less disruptive if in fact the projections are correct. Otherwise in two years 3 grades will go at once.
Sending only 7th and 8th instead of 7th and 9th will add kids a bit more slowly to LB. LB will not be overcapacity next year or any other year if 2B is voted in.
It's a good thing that the SB members can analyze data better than the Crosspointe Crowd.
At 1/02/2007 1:09 PM,
Show me the capacity number leading up to 2011-2012 for Lake Braddock, apparently you have this information. It would be nice to see the projection numbers leading up to 2011-2012, so the community can see how much space is projected for a few years out! I did not see it on any of the handouts posted at the web site, if I missed it – it would be nice of you to point it out!
Hayfield is at 69% capacity in the HS and 74% in the MS. In 2010 -2011 Hayfield HS is projected to have 1571 students, one of the smallest # of HS students in the county. The MS for that same time period is projected to have 831 students. The core facilities at Hayfield are larger than those at LBSS, look at the buidling reports. To argue Hayfield can not take an additional 600 students is baseless.
These #s came from FCPS and Projections from McKibbon.
It's interesting how the NF people have stayed relatively quiet as compared to the Psycho Silverbrookers.
And as to the inbetween years stats, just email F&P. They'll be happy to share them.
1/02/2007 2:40 PM,
It’s nice to see you are not letting your feelings get the best of you!
1:20
You can go to the fcps web site and search on Lake Braddock capacity and find it. It is in the CIP.
07 311 empty seats
08 438 empty seats
09 579 empty seats
10 631 empty seats
11 753 empty seats
Hayfield currently has 850-900 empty seats and if nothing happens is predicted to have 761 seats in 2011.
So, by the time next year's Freshmen are Seniors both schools would be about the same. It makes sense to send them each @450-500 students. Both schools have about the same amount of space for near term (4-6 years) planning.
In the next couple of years we can move students to Hayfield right away. That is why Gary is suggesting we move rising 7-8-9. We need to go slower at LBSS, but is does not have to be zero. I am not sure why he rolled over and delayed a move to LBSS. It is not an unknown. Hopefully, the board will not delay this move much longer.
3:24
You just layed out the picture for all to see. However it is a priority for those that could possibly be redistricted to LBSS to do what ever it takes to cloud the issue. Bottom line is Lake Braddock is losing population. Folks would rather crowd Hayfield then face the fact that LBSS can help with the overcrowding at South County.
Hayfield will have less then 761 seats empty. Neither F&P nor McKibbon planned for the remaining impact of Rose Hill ES and the in-fill going on in the Hayfield boundary. HF can still take 450-500, but it cannot take 600 without becoming overcrowded.
There are issues that make the 750 empty seats at LBSS questionable as well. That is why we should limit the number from SCSS to LB to around 450-500 like 3:24 says. I would not delay the decision. If you want to delay the start, or limit it to rising 7 ok, but we need to get going on it.
Who are you people who keep bashing Silverbrook?
What is with that? This blog is full of accusations about that community. What gives with the resentment? Have you sought professional help??
The people bashing Silverbrook are probably the people from communities that Silverbrook feels do not belong at South County. They are the same people who are not as organized and whose communities are about to be blind sided if Silverbrook gets its way. Those communities are Mason Neck, Lorton Station, Hagel Circle, and Newington Forest.
At 1/02/2007 3:24 PM,
Thanks for the info – I was able to go to the web site. If you look at the middle school for LB, they have the following cap:
07 1320 w/ +30 seats available
08 1267 w/ +83 seats available
09 1240 w/ +110 seats available
10 1223 w/ + 127 seats available
11 1228 w/ +122 seats available
Yes, they will lose students over the years, but how many students in the middle school from SC will be sent over to LB. Newington Forest or Silverbrook could OC the middle school from years 07-09 or out. We still do not know the true impact of the reno, who will go back to LB from private, home school or what ever? What is the big deal on waiting for Lake Braddock? South County is OC, should we OC Lake Braddock too! I guess this is just a Silverbrook Thing!
Poor Newington Forest. They are going to be in for a nasty surprise on the nights of the public forums. Silverbrook is determined to stay at SC at whatevver cost.
lose the GT center and LBSS would have more middle school room
The Silverbrook community has never implied Hagle Circle does not belong at SCSS. They continue to support Newington Forest and would imagine SB is tight with Newington Forest due to their previous history. As for Lorton Station and MN the Silverbrook people have said nothing about them during this boundary study. All this I find remarkable knowing they have litte representation. Could it be other communities area just jealous of the commarderie of Silverbrook? They get things done and are active for their residents, whats so terribly awful about that?
Liz Bradsher and the rest of her ilk have come out publically against all the neighborhoods that happen to be east of I-95 to include Mason Neck. They are willing to throw NF to the wolves (actually the bruins) even though the North Silverbrook subdivisions are closer to Lake Braddock than some areas of Fairfax Station that already attend LB.
7:29,
Are you kidding? They have not implied, they have been openly public about it!
When have they been open about THIS BOUNDARY isssue?? YOU JUST WANT TO START TROUBLE.
This is from a November Connection article. In it, Bradsher says she's frustrated that Hayfield AND Lake Braddock are underenrolled.
----
SOME PARENTS, however, are wondering how the new school could become filled to capacity so quickly.
"It was clear to those of us who live here that the boundary study they decided on would give [the school] more kids than it could handle," said Liz Bradsher, a Fairfax Station parent who worked on several task forces established to redevelop the former Lorton Prison area.
Bradsher said she had spoken with U.S. Rep. Tom Davis (R-11) in 1999 about the need for a school in the southern part of the county, and they had talked about the growing population in the area.
"If a congressman knows of this situation, I cannot believe the School Board was so naive not to know the impact it would have on students that were placed outside the boundary," she said. "Taxpayers shouldn't have to put up with this year after year. They crushed our dream."
Neither Bradsher nor Lisa Adler, president South County Secondary School PTSA, were surprised by the enrollment projections.
"We know it's hard to predict what the numbers would be, we also know the facilities people have a hard time figuring out what the true numbers are," Adler said. "This method of prediction never seems to work in the southern part of the county, so now we just opened a beautiful school and it's already crowded."
Adler said the building was always intended to be a high school, never as a permanent secondary school, and is frustrated that other schools, like Lake Braddock and Hayfield secondary schools, both of which fed into South County Secondary School, will soon be under-enrolled.
"We're not happy," she said. "We want to see responsible discussions that don't upset the spirit of the community we worked so hard to create here. We know it would be best to see a middle school built here, but there are so many other schools with needs ahead of us in the queue."
-----
So 6:49 what is your point? Bradsher and Adler appear correct in their statements.
Adler said the building was always intended to be a high school, never as a permanent secondary school, and is frustrated that other schools, like Lake Braddock and Hayfield secondary schools, both of which fed into South County Secondary School, will soon be under-enrolled.
So then Silverbrook should have no problem in helping the SC situation by attending under-enrolled Lake Braddock
Adler said the building was always intended to be a high school, never as a permanent secondary school, and is frustrated that other schools, like Lake Braddock and Hayfield secondary schools, both of which fed into South County Secondary School, will soon be under-enrolled.
So then Silverbrook should have no problem in helping the SC situation by attending under-enrolled Lake Braddock
The point is that a Middle School is needed in the region. It is on the CIP for a reason. With current information is should be moved up and built sooner than later.
Part of the silverbrook ES boundary still needs to go to LBSS, but that will not eliminate the need for a Middle School.
By implementing Option 2A, enough kids will be out of SC to keep the OC at a manageable level. The need for a Middle School will be alleviated.
2a or 2b is fine, but Mason Neck should stay at SCSS. The numbers work better for both HF and SCSS in thelong run.
To 8:15
You have taken what was stated in the Connection slightly out of context.
First LBSS did not "feed" students into SCSS. Secondly, the point made was Facilties and the SB knew the boundary for SCSS was too large, they refused to analyze the #s to any great extent, 90% of the students came from Hayfield to SCSS, the other 10% from private schools and pupil placement. Facilities failed in their predictions and also failed with LBSS predictions/projections as before 2005 there was never any indication of such a large enrollment down turn there. SCSS was built as a HS, that is in every document you will see. So again, where did Silverbrook say such contrary statements about other communities?
Never heard them say Hagel Circle, never heard them say MN, LS, etc-----ONLY YOU ARE SAYING THIS
Let us not forget F&P also underestimated how many students would be at Hayfield. It gets lost in the shuffle because they are still only at 72% full, but they were predicted to be even lower.
LBSS and HSS need to have some room left to compensate for error. The board should only send 450-500 to each.
Part of the problem with the SC overcrowding is that SC was originally going to open as a 7-10 school in its first year, then go 7-11, 7-12. However, F&P caved to the the families of the rising juniors who wanted to switch.
That just made the OC come sooner. In the long run the result is the same.
But then the fight could have been next year and all the falsehoods about LB capacity would be shown to be even more ridiculous than they are now.
Good point. The available capacity at LBSS and Hayfield are about the same in 2011, but we are acting as if LB is busting out and Hayfield is an empty cavern. It is true today, but that is shortsighted. We need adjust the boundaries and implement them with the future in mind.
You don't implement now when the space is not available and construction has not been completed on the LBSS renovation. LBSS boundaries should be opened up to others in the contiguous boundary. Hayfield just needs kids, send them 500 and be done.
10:35,
I agree with you, Lake Braddock has no room right now. The CIP shows the middle school only having 30 seats next year! I think SOME of these bloggers don’t care about numbers, they are out for revenge! Don’t know why, but they are! The Silverbrook community cares about Hayfield too, we don’t want to overcrowd that school, just send back some students, and they need them! Hopefully this will be over soon, and we can all forget about it!
10:35 and 10:48
oh, come on now. The construction at be done in April. The board can decide what to do now and implement based on when the space is available. For example, rising 7th graders from Silverbrook or NF could start attending next year or even wait until AY08-09. Don't be short sighted. Having a plan and implementing the plan are not the same thing.
Who is out for revenge and why?
We care about numbers, but when you take Lake Braddock out of the equation then Hayfield becomes a tempting target to help relieve South County even more. Look the options 2 for the Hayfield side of the equation worked well for Hayfield next year and into the next 5 years. I think the numbers would actually be higher in the outyears when all is said and done but that is a reasonble chance you take by leaving enough buffer now. Well all of a sudden folks at Lake Braddock complained and Facilities did exactly what I would have expected. In order to maintain the current levels at SCSS, when you take Lake Braddock out of the equation you bring more back to Hayfield because that is the only choice. I agree with the folks at LBSS that to bring students there next year is too early. But if the projections are correct then in two years students should go. In the mean if the Silverbrook community really cares about Hayfield not becoming overcrowded then they should say so and support the recommendation before the board. Frankly that is probably the best we can do right now. As far as the percieved bashing of Silverbrook, I can tell you that I sat in at break out groups two years ago and this last fall and personally heard folks from the Silverbrook community not only slam Mason Neck but reffered to communities as "those people" and so forth. I don't think this is the attitude of the majority of the Silverbrook community nor do I think it is a position taken by any leader of the Silverbrook community but it is definately something that has been made public at meetings and on this blog. All I can say is that the Public School system should do all it can for the greater good and if that means someone is going to get slightly then it is unfortunate. I for one am ready for the decision to be made so that we can all move on.
11:45,
Silverbrook is concerned about overcrowding Hayfield; the School Board should only send what was in option 2. Lake Braddock is still an unknown, no body knows what will happen yet, we can only guess! Remember if Hayfield gets overcapacity, they will have to send the kids back to South County. That would be bad for Hayfield and South County. That could happen to Lake Braddock too. I think it is a good idea to wait, see what happens next year at that school, and do the study with Laurel Hill ES.
I think the School Board should grandfather all grades currently at South County. This has nothing to do with Hayfield or Lake Braddock. The students at South County enjoy being at that school together and they will be the ones that get hurt! Yes South County will be OC, but they are OC now & this could help a little!
I think it is a disgrace that children who live so close to South County in the western part of the Lorton Station elementary school district are being sent to Hayfield. What was wrong with options 2A and 2B? How did Mason Neck manage to stay at SCSS? Seems like they slipped in at the last minute again. Why are we not using Lake Braddock? I am tired of people saying there is no room at Lake Braddock. There is room and we should use it. Too many children are being sent back to Hayfield, and SCSS is still way over capacity. Students should be sent to LB now, starting with 7th graders.
11:54
We know just as much about the future at LBSS as we do at any other school. There is a little room now and will be lots of room in the future. So, we should send some students now (rising 7th) and more can come in the future.
Hayfield can take about the same amount as LB, but HF can handle them all at once. If it is that important to reduce OC then bring 7-8-9. Heck even 7-8-9-10, or 7-8-9-10-11 -- that is how they left Hayfield.
It really is not fair, nor a good idea to move kids once they are in a school. The space is available to do it as long as you look at what happens after all grades matriculate. In this case LB and HF can both take about 450-500 students.
12:25
I agree that the Lorton Valley area is close to SCSS and should go there, but Mason Neck did not "slip in". They stated their case and it is a good one. The Lorton Valley area is considerable closer to Hayfield than Mason Neck. Option 2 and leaving MN at SCSS would be fine. It would utilize Hayfield properly and those in the South part of the county could go to SCSS. the rest of the OC problem will have to be delt with using LB or building a Middle School.
6:07,
Are you from Mason Neck?
What argument did Mason Neck use?
Lorton Valley is less than a mile away from SCSS. Mason Neck is not that far from Hayfield, about 7 or 8 miles? Lorton Valley should stay at SCSS, Mason Neck should be sent back to Hayfield!
It is not either Lorton Valley OR Mason Neck that should go to HF. Both can and should go to SCSS. The difference can be made up with trailers until either Silverbrook or NF goes to Lake Braddock.
Mason Neck saves 5 hours/week on a bus going to SCSS over HF.
Mason Neck is only 80-90 kids and therefore has very little impact on the utilization.
Lorton Valley is @150-160 students -- almost double the impact (but still not that much).
Let them both stay at SCSS. There will be room at LBSS in 3-5 years to take on the extra from Silverbrook or NF. HF will be full by then without either.
I really believe that some 7th and 8th graders should be redistricted to LB next year. I don't care who. Let NF and North Silverbrook argue amongst themselves as to who should attend.
I really believe that some 7th and 8th graders should be redistricted to LB next year. I don't care who. Let NF and North Silverbrook argue amongst themselves as to who should attend.
1/03/2007 11:54 AM
No matter how oc Hayfield gets no one east of I-95 will be allowed back to SCSS.
That must have been a Bradsher comment.
Some of the Silverbrook students will have to go to LB. Since LB will have the seats after the renovation and before the start of the next school year, Silverbrook will be next in line to go there.
That's right. And since the rest of the county is tired of wasting their tax money, the space that is available will be used. That means LB and Hayfield.
Just draw a line straight East to West. Everything even with and below the line is South County. Problem solved.
I don't think they will build "Way Down South" county school. So just keep the current SCSS as the reference point, everything below it goes to SCSS.
11:46
The comment you referenced could just as easily been a quote from Lisa Adler, the former SCSS president. Again, another member of the crosspointe crowd.
Post a Comment