Due to overcrowding at South County Secondary School, school boundaries for Hayfield Secondary, Lake Braddock Secondary and South County Secondary Schools are once more in question. All affected communities are invited to two important town meetings -- one is this evening, Tuesday, October 10, and the next is on Wednesday, November 1, at 7:30 p.m., both at South County Secondary School's auditorium.
What’s happening to change it?
The Fairfax County School Board is reviewing at least two possible boundary scenarios: making a traditional boundary adjustment based on geography; or eliminating the middle school from South County Secondary and dividing the middle school population (projected at more than 1,000 students) between Hayfield Secondary and Lake Braddock Secondary Schools based on available seats at each school.
What are the desired outcomes?
- Hayfield Secondary School (HSS) should remain under capacity if boundaries are redrawn to allow for future growth. HSS was well over capacity for well over a decade!
- HSS should remain a balanced, diverse and desirable community school, with only elementary schools in the immediately surrounding neighborhoods feeding the school.
- Students should stay at HSS for all six years of middle and high school. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are secondary schools with carefully planned and separate spaces for middle school and high school populations. A large middle school population and a smaller high school population would be detrimental to the educational quality on both sides of the building.
- Transportation routes and bus ride time MUST be considered during the boundary-setting process.
- The school board MUST consider consequences from DoD’s Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process –– with a potential influx of 20,000 workers at Fort Belvoir over the next four years.
What about these town meetings?
Please plan to attend this evening's (Tuesday, October 10) meeting, and be sure to mark your calendar for the follow-up meeting on Wednesday, November 1. Each meeting begins at 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium of South County Secondary School, located at 8501 Silverbrook Rd., Lorton, VA 22079. The meetings will feature group discussions and breakout sessions so the school board can gather data and info from the affected communities. As parents, residents and voters, you are strongly encouraged to attend and prove to the school board that you have a vested interest in the educational needs of your children and the welfare of your community. That’s why it’s important to be there!
2,729 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2401 – 2600 of 2729 Newer› Newest»And if no middle school is built?
It will be. If not, they will continue to argue for it -- althought it will be different people. I think that the process to get it built is moving down the track with irreversible momentum. The efforts now to get it done sooner may or may not work, but it will be built regardless of the utilization at LB. You can always make arguments for a "county wide study" or "save on transportation" "need modern efficiencies" etc. There are many reasons to have a school other than just capacity. Some of the reasons are even legitimate.
Someone suggested looking at a map. Please do. Lake Braddock is accessible from the western edge of the SC district. Maybe not optimum, but it can be done, and is being done by students who past right by Silverbrook Road and Route 123.
Please note two enormous physical barriers that separate the area near Hayfield from Mount Vernon and West Potomac: Fort Belvoir and Huntley Meadows Park. With the additional traffic that BRAC will bring to the Fort Belvoir area, it's kind of hard to see how to use Mount Vernon, especially when its middle school is not under capacity. Also, Mount Vernon takes the high-school-age kids who live on Fort Belvoir. Let's see how BRAC plays out.
Unless you all can figure out a way to pluck those kids off their docks in Mason Neck and send them on boats to Mount Vernon!
The Coast Guard Station is also a barrier. Besides if the F&P plan is accepted Hayfield is predicted to be 250 kids short of 100%. With the normal error rate of F&P, impact of previous boundary changes and in-fill they will probably be over 100% anyway.
Look north to LB!
It’ funny how the Mason Neck group continue to claim that the only school for them is South County. Hayfield is too far, Mount Vernon is not accessible and South County is right down the road. They have no problem splitting up the Silverbrook community and sending them to Lake Braddock. When in reality Lake Braddock is just as far as Hayfield is for them. Look at a map Mason Neck, some of the homes in the Silverbrook area are far from Lake Braddock and pretty close to South County. Splitting up the Silverbrook area will distroy the community. But this is Mason Neck we are talking about, and they will do what ever they can to stay in and kick out the Silverbrook community. Didn’t they get into South County the first boundary study at the last minute?
It's funny how the east of 95 communities hate Silverbrook and aren't equally nasty to Newington Forest. Since when do Mount Vernon District people get to dictate enrollment decisions?
Send Newington Forest to LBSS, makes no difference to me. Why are Silverbrook folks wanting to banish people to another school district? Whats good for the goose....
Silverbrook is more outspoken than NF. Your community is more organized and active than NF. You therefore generate more backlash. We at LS want to stay at SCSS just like you.
Those communities at SCSS that are being sent or could be sent to HF are frustrated that they have to leave and you don't. The space available at HF and LB is the same. Why us and not you?
People who live east of I-95 have no right to attend South County. South County was built for Halley, Silverbrook, and Newington Forest. Just because you all bribed the School Board in backroom deals, does not give you the right to ruin our school for our children.
If option 2a or 2b is selected by the school board, won’t Mason Neck go to Hayfield? Why does the Mason Neck group continue to support sending SB or NF to Lake Braddock that is option 2a or 2b? Either choice will send them back to Hayfield.
I'm a Halley parent. I support the Option 3 with the addition of Newington Forest to Lake Braddock. Option 3 by itself leaves too many kids at South County.
Who said mason neck supports options 2a or 2b? I think people at Hayfield supports either of the option 2 as it leaves room at Hayfield to assorb more growth without getting to crowded. Did you know the projections were off this year for Hayfield by more then they were for Lake Braddock percentage wise. Its just that Hayfield has much more room now and noone noticed. This is why you can't fill all the so called 900 seats at Hayfield next year. That school is still seeing increases from the boundary study two years ago.
They should send Newington forest and split Silverbrook to LBSS and leave Mason Neck and all of Lorton Station as SCSS
5:06 - has got to be a Mason Neck. Option 2a or 2b with no amendments will work. Send Mason Neck to Hayfield. Sorry Hayfield, don’t mean to stick them with you, but South County is OC and that is the best option.
Send enough kids in substantial numbers to benefit all 3 schools. That is why 2A is the best. It creates no new split feeder from Silverbrook, eliminates the Gunston split and evens out the LS split so it's closer to 50/50.
Mason Neck should have never been sent to SCSS in the first place. Sending them to Hayfield will correct a last minute back-door deal from the first boundary study.
Wow 93 kids solves all of SCSS overcrowding. Make a big difference and send silverbrook to LBSS
Send kids to both Hayfield and LB so SC can get close to capacity. I'm really tired of the selfishness of the residents of both the eastern AND western edges of the SC boundaries.
Anyone go to the work session? What happened ?
Sending Mason Neck to Hayfield will not solve SCSS overcrowding, but no one neighborhood/community will. Not Silverbrook, NF, LS or Halley neighborhoods alone will solve the problem. That is why 8:12 is right, both Hayfield and LB need to be used to get SCSS at a reasonable capacity. Lorton Valley needs to stay at SCSS due to distance. Mason Neck to Hayfield and use Lake Braddock for some students on the west side of SCSS.
Nobody has claimed that LB alone is the solution. However, people who might get redistricted TO LB, cough cough Silverbrook cough cough, HAVE claimed that Hayfield can handle all the SC overcrowding.
MN will obviously not handle all the overcrowding, but it's a good start. It's time to fix the wrongs of a few years ago, starting with MN. No more back room deals.
Maybe the wrong that was done was done more then 5 years ago when Bradsheer hijacked the school and is trying to keep it to herself.
9:46 what are you talking about? Do you honestly think Ms. Bradshear has any control over SCSS. Seek some help for your visions of delusion.
Silverbrook is more infamous for the bribery than MN. Just ask Woodson or anyone else on the CIP list that had their renovation delayed for years on end.
When SCSS was put ahead of schedule to be built, it was under the idea that it was for the southern part of Fairfax County. But then Silverbrook decided that they didn't want the east side of 95 to go and now they're all pissed off that they didn't get the school for themselves.
9:46 and 10:53
No one hijacked anything and that bloger is a great example of the definition of the word ignorance. SC was built without upsetting the CIP queue. It also assisted in moving other projectes up as SC was taken off of the queue. Yes, ask Woodson, Glascow, South Lakes and others. Ask SB members and Facilities. No hijacking just pretty innovative thinking for a county that needed and still does, education funding. As for Silverbrook to SC I think most would agree that this community should continue to attend SCSS.
If you want to blog then at the very least get your facts, names and information straight.
If South County was not built when it was, Hayfield would be way over capacity. Yes, let’s blame Bradsheer for that. If she had not spent many hours and time away from her family, then the school would not be built. I guess the bloggers who are fighting so hard to get in really don’t care about that, just as long as they get their way and kick out the Silverbrook Community. I’m sure some of the eastern communities have already made some deals with the school board, they did it before.
Ironically, most DON'T agrees that Silverbrook should automatically remain at SC. You nouveau riche types are fighting the wrong enemy.
Hey 7:10,
Who is "nouveau" rich and isn't that a prejudiced slur on your part? Also, your threat only shows an ignorance on you part about the issue and a community. You need to spend less time on this blog and more time on chipping away that huge "rock" on your shoulder. Your "enemy" is yourself.
You would make for a great Shakespearian play.
Silverbrook will remain.
Folks -- for the most part, I stay out of the discussions and simply provide the "sandbox" for all of you to play in. But I want to wade in for a moment and respectfully ask that everyone refrain from the mudslinging and profanity. That was never the intent of this forum -- discuss and argue to your heart's content, but let's please keep it clean and above the belt. I was interviewed by a Hayfield SS student last week for an article about this blog to appear in the school's newspaper -- trust me, YOUR CHILDREN are reading this blog, too, and are watching and listening intently. Let's at least be good role models for them, hmmm?
1/22/2007 11:45 PM,
10:53 PM said nothing about the CIP queue. What was said was that the school was to be buit for the "southern" part of Fairfax. I'm sure that if the words "only for the southwest, west of 95 students could attend" the SB would have had a problem with that.
Not everyone thinks that ALL of Silverbrook should leave SCSS, just the WEST part to LB.
I guesss no one has respect for the VA STATE OF MIND. However, what was said by 8:02 was correct and a bit late. The personal attacks and mudslinging is pretty shameful. The twisting of the issue just as bad.
Thanks, 8:17, but it's not about me -- and you're right, some of the mudslinging has been going on here for awhile but it's gotten worse in the past week or two. I just wanted everyone to know that younger eyes than ours review this blog regularly!
It is about you Mike.
At least the Post had the decency to censor the blog and then finally pull the plug in the vein of responsible journalism which is the only reason this blog has any life. In addition they started with a non- biased position.
You on the other hand created a Hayfield based blog and fed it your personal articles and those of your compatriots with clearly biased positions.
You provide the fuel for a nasty community fire under the guise of the First Amendment without the accompanying responsibility that comes with any right.
Why do you think no other community started a blog? Because we can't...?????...or we shouldn't.
I hope the personal recognition you receive is worth the community cost.
I am not from Hayfield. I live in Crosspointe. My kids are at Halley and at SC. I have posted before.
From what I have seen posted, there are many posters from all over SC. I have seen POVs advocating all 4 options (1, 2A, 2b, 3).
What do I endorse for the School Board as a choice? That would be Option 2B.
Thank you VA State of Mind for providing a forum.
2B is still the worst option. I guess having your kids safe at Halley lets you have an uninformed opinion.
I don’t think a lot of bloggers get what the Silverbrook community is trying to say. We want to keep the Silverbrook community together. Yes, some splits work in the school system, but this one will hurt our community. It is not so easy to send one side of Silverbrook to Lake Braddock and the other side to South County. Silverbrook road is a small road. Crosspointe sits on both sides of it. If the school board removes part of Silverbrook, they will create an island in the community. There is no way it can be done without hurting us. Ox road is a major highway that is why that side of Fairfax Station split is okay. Besides, they didn’t want to go to Hayfield at that time. If the school board removes part of Silverbrook, they should remove all of it and part of Halley too. The only school that can take all of Fairfax Station is South County. We would OC the schools on the west side. The split is not so easy. So bloggers start the mudslinging.
Alright, Anonymous, 12:56, since you're willing to take gloves are off (but not willing, apparently, to share any sort of identity or blame), let's take a brief look at your own inflamatory comments. As a Hayfield Elementary parent, I freely admit I'm publishing from a certain perspective -- just like you and every other person here fighting for what's best for their kids. This blog (and its predecessor web site) exists to INFORM and EQUIP the parents of Hayfield Elementary and other Hayfield Secondary feeder schools with the talking points and information needed to discuss these issues at town meetings and breakout groups. That was the intent during the first fiasco of a boundary study in 2003 as well as this year's proposed study, ESPECIALLY in the face of the South County community public relations juggernaut.
The commenting process has been left open on this blog because folks need to comment/argue/discuss (within limits) on these issues, and also because I quite frankly do not have the time or resources to moderate the 2,000+ comments that have come in. With work, PTA and other obligations, I'm not taking any more time away from my own family just to keep stirring this pot. In fact, this is the first time I've allowed myself to be drawn into the commenting process at length. I don't hide behind the First Amendment, and if open commenting here makes me an irresponsible journalist, so be it. (I'll politely remind you that you also have the freedom NOT to read blog postings and associated comments.)
Do I/we present our info from a Hayfield perspective here? Absolutely, and unashamedly so. Unlike some muckrakers posting here, I have a dog in this fight -- I am surely concerned about my two sons attending a WAY-overcrowded Hayfield Middle School -- a school that finally has room to grow for the first time in many years -- just to accomodate the perceived-as-more-immediate needs of South County Secondary. My "compatriots" and I from the Hayfield community have stated time and again that we are more than willing to accept additional students at Hayfield Secondary -- as long as the burden is spread evenly among all affected schools in terms of both numbers AND socio-economic status.
While there may not be any other blogs published from the west side of I-95 on this issue, please DO NOT propose for a moment that South County neighborhoods have not cranked their own propaganda machine into action, or that they don't have their own agenda. I have past copies of the Barrington community newsletter -- posted, surprise, at their community website -- as proof of THAT, not to mention the October Silverbrook meeting with the who's-who of Fairfax County school board and government glitterati in attendance. Do you think the Hayfield community would get THAT kind of star turnout if we held a similar meeting in our area and invited the same guest list??? Please.
Finally, I won't take the blame for starting ANY fires with this blog. SOME South County area parents did that all on their own three years ago, making a mockery of the first series of "town meetings," flaunting a general air of entitlement to the new school as well as an unspoken expectation of determining WHO gets to attend (not to mention the nasty comments about Hayfield area and Rt. 1 neighborhoods). I applaud the efforts of those hard-working South County parents who formed the public/private partnership that got the new school built -- but that, unfortunately, does not automatically include the right to determine who gets to attend a public school. That attitude, more than anything, was the genesis of the hard feelings that are continuously on display here. If there's blame to share, YOU and everyone else here is as much at fault as I am.
With the exception of the interview I mentioned above, I've received no recognition for hosting this blog so I have nothing to gain or lose by keeping it live. Quite frankly, I'm shocked at the sheer amount of comments that have shown up here over the past six months. But as long as the boundary issue remains on the table, this blog and its comments stay open. Many thanks to those of you -- from Hayfield neighborhoods, to South County neighborhoods, to everywhere in between -- who continue to discuss this subject in an honest spirit of debate.
Why doesn't Silverbrook support 2A? Newington Forest could go to LB as a undivided community and Silverbrook would remain at SCSS. The fact is that SCSS overcrowding cannot be solved without using both Hayfield and LB. Silverbrook should support 2A, and remain together as a community.
3:12-
Good for 12:56 for calling you out.
Thank-you State of Mind. SCSS parents don't have to post here if they don't like it. What they really don't like is Hayfield standing up for itself. Good for you!
Mike you wrote this
"While there may not be any other blogs published from the west side of I-95 on this issue, please DO NOT propose for a moment that South County neighborhoods have not cranked their own propaganda machine into action, or that they don't have their own agenda. I have past copies of the Barrington community newsletter -- posted, surprise, at their community website -- as proof of THAT, not to mention the October Silverbrook meeting with the who's-who of Fairfax County school board and government glitterati in attendance. Do you think the Hayfield community would get THAT kind of star turnout if we held a similar meeting in our area and invited the same guest list??? Please."
It is your own fault and lack of organizational skills if you cannot organize a meeting and ask you elected officials to such meeting. You chide Silverbrook for being organized and knowing the issues and while doing so you show your own bias and to be blunt jeaolousy. You are not better than the othre bloggers. And to think I stood up for you in a previous blog statement.
AND to think our kids at one time went to the same school.
4:24 - You have totally flipped out! Get yourself under control. I am not Mike.
By the way what you mis- perceive as entitlement we believe is just due. SC was built for our neighborhoods and others as that is what we were told by Facilities as far back at 2002. Hayfield was too big, transportation was a major problem, LBSS was not a choice nor was WSHS. Don't go into the history of this issue if you don't know it. SCSS was to assist with the OC of Hayfield, not LBSS, not WSHS, Lee or any other. The direct reason for the building of SCSS was over capacity at Hayfield due to growth and need.
The people in Crosspointe and elsewhere are no different from those in Hayfield Farms and Raceway Farms. We want a community school. Since we live no more than 1.8 miles from the school we should attend such a school based upon Facilities' criteria. It is really very simple.
Your blog and recent statement has uncovered what your intentions are all about. It has nothing to do with what is good for the kids. Such a shame.
Well things just happen to change over time. By the time SCSS was built, Lee and Edison both needed relief and LBSS had massive projected under capacity. SCSS is a public school and the needs of all public schools need to be addressed before the needs of your community. If you want a community school, support study 2A. That leaves Silverbrook at SCSS, and at capacity, not 117%.
4:39, I know the issues and history of this mess just fine and really don't need to hear your interpretation of it through your obviously blue/green/silver tinted glasses. Thanks for the offer, though! You love to constantly hide behind the FCPS F&P office -- "Facilities promised us this," or "Facilities criteria said that" -- which makes one wonder if those charges of behind-the-scenes "planning sessions" between some SC parents and F&P office staffers really DID happen regularly over the years.
How very convenient, too, for you to lobby for a community school, with such nice, compact, symmetrical attendance boundaries that -- oh by the way! -- have the fewest number of ESOL and free/reduced lunch students included within its borders of any other FCPS secondary or high school. Hayfield and its families do indeed desire a community school, but not at the expense of a balanced and diverse student population. To NOT have that or want that in any school isn't simple or logical at all -- that's prejudice. And THAT'S the real shame here. (For the record -- Hayfield doesn't have a prayer of EVER having a community school with its current boundaries stretching from between 15 to 20 miles north to south, and this current boundary study does nothing to help that situation.)
Charge me with jealousy and bias, and vilify me all you wish, folks -- just calling 'em as I see 'em. (As many Hayfield parents see 'em, in fact.)
Wow, the blog was starting to get boring and now this! I feel for Silverbrook, but someone needs to go to LBSS. I know it is close, but the SCSS is near the boundary of the LB boundary.
With the current growth HF can fit (barely) what F&P has reccomended. LBSS has about the same amount of space available to the rising Freshmen (perhaps more for rising 7) so the board really needs a plan to use it. I would prefer that they do it now and not go through this again in two years. However, I suspect that if they do the new board (at least the new Springfield rep) will do it all again.
Hey 5:23 you have certainly changed your concilatory mood and tune. Your don't get it and never will because you have shear disgust for a community that achieved something for their kids. Again, such a shame.
I ask everyone from Silverbrook and elsewhere to shut this blog down, it is meaningless. It has achieved nothing but shear nastiness among what were once good communities.
Thanks Mike, Mr. Reed and all for the memories.
5:23 - And not just Hayfield parents. Many of us outside of this boundary study understand that the SB is hyper-focused on SCSS and not Hayfield. None of us want another boundary study, because next time, the school board may drag our schools into the problem, and what will they do to the rest of us to make SCSS happy?
Look, I am very happy that the Mason Neck, Lorton Station, Silverbrook, etc communites were able to make SCSS happen. If you didn't we would all still be stuck in an overcrowded Hayfield. I applaud the efforts and integrity of the Middle School solutions group. And I understand why Silverbrook and NF want to stay at SCSS. However, there isn't enough room. Hayfield can take some and we can take them right away, but not enough to fix the problem. Someone will need to start using the space that is opening up in Lake Braddock. You guys need to sort out who that is going to be. We at Hayfield welcome back as many students as we can reasonably fit, but there is only 500-750 seatS available.
Hey, 6:20 -- I'm one of the nicest, most conciliatory people I know. Just ask my Hayfield neighbors and friends.
And you know what's TRULY disgusting? How you and many SC parents reviled and criticized Hayfield Secondary once it was clear that the new school you were trying to get built was becoming a reality. We may forgive the nasty comments focused on our school and our neighborhoods thrown out at various town meetings and breakout discussions, but we won't soon forget. Even more disturbing is how some SC parents want so badly to maintain the "country club" atmosphere at SCSS at all costs. THOSE are the folks who don't get it, and never will.
I encourage you and those from Silverbrook and ALL parties to stay and debate, but if it pains you so badly to stay and read, then by all means leave. I guess the truth really DOES hurt. Please remember, though, that this blog is not reponsible for inciting the nastiness. The flaming arrows came FIRST from the west side of I-95, before even the FIRST boundary study began a few years ago.
7:49
You really rise to the lowest common denominator. We are excited about SCSS, excited about our community. You can try to rain on our parade, call us names, belittle our school culture for rising above adversity and coming together and being a success. You can try your best to diminish our pride. But our accomplihsments will never be diminished for they are brick and mortor.
You have burnt your bridge VA STATE OF MIND.
At least VA STATE OF MIND had enough courage to reveal their identity
VASM-
There is no worthwhile debate on your Hayfield site.
Look noone at Hayfield cares who stays or goes from South County. It was clear to us in 2003 that all the communities that left Hayfield could not wait to get out. I wish you all could stay at South County. I find it funny that 8:29 talks about coming together and he/she is probably the first to stand up and say throw out this community or that community just not mine. We at Hayfield will welcome back anyone and a party is actually being planned just to do that, however do not take that to mean that we do not care about Hayfield and will just lie down and take whatever you throw at us. We too want a good school for the education of our children, we simply ask the School Board to use the space at Hayfield wisely and do not give into the temptations of using Hayfield as the solution to all the other schools problems. We deserve the same consideration as any other community.
Silverbrook is just mad that they can't control the output of opinions from the Crosspointe, Barrington etc neighborhoods. Fliers and emails have been sent around our neigborhoods telling us what the official mantra will be.
-----
There are parents who want to see North Silverbrook sent to Lake Braddock for a variety of reasons. Some people in North Silverbrook want their kids to go to a secondary with a proven track record. Others want their GT kids to finish up at LB once they start there. Others want their nonGT offspring to attend the same school as their GT siblings.
Some people in Crosspointe who are supposed to stay at SC (according to F&P) want SC to have a manageable student population. Hayfield is certainly going to be taking its fair share of students. LB needs to do the same. I don't care if my kids' friends will go to a different secondary. That's part of life. They will see their friends outside of school and make new friends at the new school. Given the fickleness of adolescence and the different rates of development and maturity, the liklihood of John remaining best buddies with Mike or Jane being BFF with Mary is minimal at best.
I believe in Option 2B.
9:36
well put
makes sense,
But wont that break up the love fest between Crosspointe and Barrington. Your like kissing cousins from what some bloggers say. I would hate to see you torn apart like some Romeo and Juliet.
7:49 -- actually, one SINKS to the lowest common denominator, but for me to correct one's poor grammar in an internet posting really IS sinking to the lowest common denominator (or rising, in your case) -- so I guess I'm guilty as charged.
The 8:42 commenter states the Hayfield case PERFECTLY -- Hayfield families want only for the school board to carefully consider the Hayfield perspective, with all other perspectives INCLUDING South County area, on a level playing field. Is that too much to ask?
So ironic, 7:49, that you accuse myself and other Hayfielders of the very behavior that the west-of-I-95 crowd has shown US on a fairly consistent basis in recent years. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Have some of us REALLY become so self-involved that we're more proud of celebrating brick and mortor (sp!) victories, than to ensure that the best and most informed decisions are made on behalf of ALL KIDS affected by this situation??
I think there will be less love lost than people think between the areas already split by Silverbrook Road.
I still think that if F&P would have just left Silverline Road at SCSS it would have taken the fire out of this fight.
Question: If
a. SC had never been built,
b. Silverbrook et. al. was still at Hayfield,and
c. LB was about to have the renovation finished,
don't y'all think all of Silverbrook and Newington Forest would be fighting to get redistricted INTO Lake Braddock?
Hell yes.
They could not wait to leave Hayfield. So badly did they want to leave they even took the Junior class compounding the crowding situation even sooner. Now they have to create the illustion of no room at LBSS to keep from being moved out of SCSS.
I hope the School Board votes for no change
Let them all stay huddled together at SCSS like frightened little rabbits.
As a taxpayer, I have to disagree.
Why should we be paying for modulars and trailers when there are empty seats at both LB and H?
As a taxpayer, I agree with you, but the other side of me says those people at SCSS have been so difficult and have caused so many problems for other schools, they can keep their school, excess kids, traillers, staggered schedule the lot. I am more concerned about Hayfield and the other schools in the area.
We cannot leave SCSS OC unless we move no one out. When this first started I thought we should wait a few years. As long as we do not use LB, there will continue to be efforts to send more of us to the east to Hayfield until all of Lorton Station ES and Gunston is out. What is good for LS is good for SB or NF. The space at LB and HF is about the same.
Why not send the Mason Neckers to Mount Vernon? It will change their perspective a little. They'll be begging to get into Hayfield.
Are Hayfield parents happy with the school's performance?
I think the school board broke Hayfield by removing too many students. Its academic rating is low and the sports teams don't win much. The way to fix Hayfield is to restore the student population. Neighborhoods close by such as Lorton Station and Mason Neck need to go back. Hayfield has 900 empty seats according to the school board. In a couple of years Hayfield will be back to being a good school.
As a resident of Mason Neck I wouldn't mind if my children attended Mount Vernon. The school is easy to get to and I know my kids would do well in the diverse environment. I don't understand why others are against the idea. I support it.
I don't believe you are from MN.
Nice try 757. Every family from Mason Neck signed up and spoke at the public hearing and none of them mentioned that as a viable option. You are not Mason Neck, but it might be fun to watch how the blog responds.
Hayfield is doing well academically, thanks. Last weekend, Hayfield won the Patriot District title in "It's Academic," and came in second to T.J. for all of Fairfax County. There is more to a school than its football or basketball teams. Look at wrestling, or marching band.
Yes, Hayfield could use more high school kids. The Patriot District is made up of schools that, right now, are much bigger than Hayfield. And on the academic side, more students would ensure that AP classes are offered in more than one section to alleviate scheduling problems.
Removing 40 percent of Hayfield's population was a mistake that led to a certain amount of instability. Send some students back to Hayfield, but keep in mind that there are not 900 empty seats. The impact of the last boundary change has not taken hold yet on the high school side--a lot of Twain kids who were supposed to start at Hayfield in ninth grade went instead to Edison to pursue IB studies. Next year, the kids from that area who started at Hayfield in seventh grade will start moving into high school.
As for Mason Neck, about 7 or 8 years ago the families of Mason Neck lined up to tell the school board that Mount Vernon simply could not work for them and that they simply had to remain at Hayfield. The board changed facilities' recommendation, kept Mason Neck and all of Gunston at Hayfield, the overcrowding got worse, and the rest is history.
If Newington Forest and Silverbrook had been given the Lake Braddock option that year, they would have jumped at the chance.
Those academic ratings assumed that a school's population remained relatively constant and Hayfield lost 40% of its students. Hayfield is fine and pretty much has to ignore those ratings. It is a great school now. HF is drastically different (better) than the one the SC left. Once the students and parents return they will be glad they did.
Who really wants to spend the money on South County Middle School other than Silverbrook? At-large school board members will never survive public debates for re-election if they vote for option 3. Magisterial district reps will be subject to questions on this vote as well. Are they going to state they voted yes for it only to secure yes votes on a porky facilities project in their district? FCPS only has legitimate needs based projects in the bond referendum planning money pipeline. I couldn't find anything resembling the oddly oversized new Glasgow or politically driven Langley addition. Silverbrook area votes in Springfield not Mount Vernon. Belter was begging for the new MS but I cannot see how her colleagues could vote for it and get re-elected. As per strategic governance, the School Board could fire Dale for even recommending it.
Financial operational expectations include "Continued community support for school system operations and bond-funded school
construction depends upon the highest levels of fiscal stewardship and accountability of
public funds."
There is no justification for the construction and operation of a SC MS with any public funds. If anyone disagrees with any other construction project that might not be necessary, then you need to voice your opinion now not after backhoes are at a site. The Silberbrookers should have been more helpful when the earth was turned for the LB addition - someone had to go there. Just who did they think would sit in the LB MS addition? With all the complaining about sites, etc I see hayfield now has algebra 1 - it didn't appear to be offered there before. The movers and shakers for SC should care more about academics since they were such a dominant group at HF.
Moreover, the communities in the boundary process should have pointed out any discrepancies in potential SC attendees. These might have included GTC kids as well as large blocks of private school kids at a k-8 parochial school. Chevalier isn't omniscient and values insights from communities when they rpovide information that can impact his work. CarolHorn is now in charge of GT and gives less than adequate input to Chevalier. FCPS has removed bonded projects from the queu based on current updated capacity numbers.
Who really wants to spend the money on South County Middle School other than Silverbrook? At-large school board members will never survive public debates for re-election if they vote for option 3. Magisterial district reps will be subject to questions on this vote as well. Are they going to state they voted yes for it only to secure yes votes on a porky facilities project in their district? FCPS only has legitimate needs based projects in the bond referendum planning money pipeline. I couldn't find anything resembling the oddly oversized new Glasgow or politically driven Langley addition. Silverbrook area votes in Springfield not Mount Vernon. Belter was begging for the new MS but I cannot see how her colleagues could vote for it and get re-elected. As per strategic governance, the School Board could fire Dale for even recommending it.
Financial operational expectations include "Continued community support for school system operations and bond-funded school
construction depends upon the highest levels of fiscal stewardship and accountability of
public funds."
There is no justification for the construction and operation of a SC MS with any public funds. If anyone disagrees with any other construction project that might not be necessary, then you need to voice your opinion now not after backhoes are at a site. The Silberbrookers should have been more helpful when the earth was turned for the LB addition - someone had to go there. Just who did they think would sit in the LB MS addition? With all the complaining about sites, etc I see hayfield now has algebra 1 - it didn't appear to be offered there before. The movers and shakers for SC should care more about academics since they were such a dominant group at HF.
Moreover, the communities in the boundary process should have pointed out any discrepancies in potential SC attendees. These might have included GTC kids as well as large blocks of private school kids at a k-8 parochial school. Chevalier isn't omniscient and values insights from communities when they rpovide information that can impact his work. CarolHorn is now in charge of GT and gives less than adequate input to Chevalier. FCPS has removed bonded projects from the queu based on current updated capacity numbers.
9:58
In addition to Silverbrook, Mason Neck, Lorton Station, and Newington Forest ES parents want a Middle School. They are supported by County and State officials -- and Tom Davis. The Middle School is in the CIP. It is going to be built and soon - that train has left the station. Get over it.
Of course Silverbrook, Mason Neck, Lorton Station, and Newington Forest ES parents want a Middle School. Perhaps 9:58 should have asked who outside of current SCSS parents want a middle school? Perhaps there are some Lake Braddock parents who want it so their school can remain at 80% capacity The rest of the FFX county taxpayers are not thrilled about it. The only people who want to build a new middle school are those with a selfish agenda.
The only reason that the rest of FFX county does not want a South County Middle School is they have their own schools and renovations they want. They feel passionate about their CIP projects like anyone else. Call it selfish if you want, but if taxpayers don't stick up for themselves then they will get pushed to the side. If the hayfield pyramid group did not take a stand and get SCSS built then we would all still be stuck in an overcrowded Hayfield while other "selfish" communites moved ahead. We should not and will not sit idly by and assume we will all be treated fairly. A MS is necessary for many reasons (capacity is only one), it is on the CIP for a reason, and those of us directly affected by it have an obligation to stand firm -- just like every other community with Capitol Improvement needs.
Then wait your turn on the CIP. In the meantime, you can use the available seats at LB and H. Before SCSS was built, all other nearby schools were at capacity (except Mt. Vernon.) This is adifferent situation. There are plenty of available seats. Stop asking to have your middle school built way ahead of your turn.
SC has waited long enough. It is our turn.
No, you have a new school. You have had your turn. Now that you are overcrowded, use the available space.
don't you know that a crisis with only one solution is at hand. Use Lake Braddock or suffer the overcrowded situation. Your choice, just stay out of my pocket.
Do you know that SC is the only school pyramid that does not have a middle school in it. Some of you may respond and say yes we do since SC High School was made into a MS. However, it was not suppose to be that way. The school capacity is well below the capacity of other Secondary Schools. Those schools are built to hold 4,000 plus students. If FFX Cty was going to make this a Secondary School they should have used plans from a Secondary School and not High School. But they didn't and that is why we are in this mess and that is why people feel they are jusified in calling for a MS. Just wanted to give you some history about what the County has historically done for other school pyramids. Why should SC be any different?
Well now you have the chance to go to Hayfield or Lake Braddock where the middle school is separate from the high school. Why aren't you jumping on that option?
I did not say I am not. The longer this goes on the more painful it gets. I am fine with going to Hayfield if the other side sends students to LB. This process is about getting SCSS under 100% capacity. The only way to do this is to use LB and Hayfield. Therefore, I am willing to do my part but LB then needs to be used so that this does not become and East /West thing. Also, I am from Lorton Station.
1209,
Good for you, but SCSS does have a MS. The problem is the attendence area draws in too many kids. You are correct that the board needs to use LB and HF. It is not fair or just to only use HF when both schools have over 700 spaces available.
12:09 - I agree with you on the west side doing their part too. I am not in favor of a new middle school, but I think it is totally wrong that Lorton Station Elementary school district children are the only ones being asked to move. Someone from the west of SCSS needs to go to Lake Braddock. Options 2A and 2B were by far the best approach.
I agree. Unfortunately politics took presidence over logic and somehow convinced FFX County Facilities only Hayfield should be used at this time. I don't know how they did this but they did and Facilities did not want to stand up to them. I hope the SB will see the light, make the right decision and use both schools NOW to get SCSS under 100%. It is fair for ALL parties involved. Then when the MS is built in 2017 or sooner we can all do this again. Fun, Fun!!
Look it is very simple to start using LBSS now along with Hayfield. You move the GT center to its own space in a high school hall, then start with 7th graders to LBSS. This will slowly add students as space comes available over the years.
i'm 9:58
I am not going to get over it and don't care what you write. As for Tom Davis, I do not care one whit what he wants. LB had a bricks and mortar addition not some modular in a parking lot. South Lakes is going into the boundary change process with a domino since some schools have inadequate core capacity. Modulars are mid-term fixes not permanent.
2:01
You are right. Silverbrook and Newington forest are looking for a problem to get their fix for a new Middle School. Frankly I wonder if a new middle school will ever be needed. Right now space is available to handle the projected numbers. Beyond that we may see more numbers ebb and flow up and down but it may be that both Hayfield and LBSS could handle it for a few years at capacity or possible a few modulars until the number flow back down with the natural population changes in age and numbers of kids. If we build another middle school now, in 10 years we could have a 70 million school that is no longer needed. I say lets wait on building a middle school to see if it is needed and use the space at LBSS.
South County kids shouldn't have to be at 113% overcapacity. South County kids should not have to be in modulars. South County kids should not have to have vastly different start/end times for the 7-8 and the 9-12.
Send Newington Forest to Lake Braddock and keep Silverbrook together.
South County kids shouldn't have to be at 113% overcapacity. South County kids should not have to be in modulars. South County kids should not have to have vastly different start/end times for the 7-8 and the 9-12.
Send Newington Forest to Lake Braddock and keep Silverbrook together.
I agree with most of that, but the different start/end times are pretty popular. I think they should be considered at other schools as well.
What a waste of gas $ for the county having to run separate bus times! FCPS is also paying major incentives to SCSS staff and faculty for their odd work hours. Again, a major waste of $ for the county.
How much more $ does it cost for the tranportation?
I don't mind paying teachers more, but are they working longer hours? Some of them will have the opportunity to upgrade to Hayfield and Lake Braddock soon.
If Mason Neck returns to Hayfield will it take Mount Vernon out of the mix for the next study?
Mt. Vernon has not been in any study to date and I don't believe it will be in the future. The next study is supposed to be between SCSS and Lake Braddock, so even Hayfield will probably not be in that study. If Mason Neck stays at SCSS now, they will not be moved later because Hayfield could be off the table. They have about 100 kids attending SCSS now. If the west side of SCSS goes to Lake Braddock in the future, 100 extra kids will be pulled from the west side to make up for Mason Neck, to get SCSS to at least 100% capacity.
ok. It would certainly make more sense to send 100 more to Lake Braddock then to send Mason Neck to Hayfield if that were the case. But, I don't think it is the case.
The current plans max out Hayfield. If Mason Neck goes to HF, then a portion of Lorton Station (e.g. Lorton Valley) will need to go to SCSS. Sending MN to HF is more likely force a larger number of SB/NF kids to LB.
What makes you think MN is going to Hayfield? The recommended study leaves them at SCSS. If they get through this study and stay at SCSS, they will be off the table for the next study. I don't think the west side of SCSS would agree that it makes sense to send 100 more of their kids to Lake Braddock so MN can stay at SCSS. The west side needs to remember that the next study is all about them, no east side in the mix.
If Mason Neck & Lorton Valley stay at SCSS, how many students will go to Hayfield? Will it be enough to help out w/ the OC at SC? I think that will be the recomendation from the board, what do you think? Lake Braddock will have space in 2 years, hopefully when that study is completed SC will not be OC. In 2 years they should be able to take about 500 kids, they will be at capacity for a year or two, but if the CIP is correct they will reach a good capacity after that.
That could be the recommendation from the board, but it will leave SCSS very overcrowded. Then, the next study, Phase 2, will focus on the west side unless a "free school" turns up and what are the chances of that? I think much larger portions of the west side will end up at Lake Braddock. I think Silverbrook are making a big mistake by not pushing for option 2A now.
Silverbrook is a community of good people. They appreciae Newington Forest and it would not be appropriate to ever suggest 2A. I think you all on the BLOG are making a terrible mistake and your comments prove you just don't get it.
But this same community of "good people" think it is ok for Lorton Station to go.
They may be good people, as are the folks from NF, Hayfield, Mason Neck, Lorton Station, etc.
However, there are many from Silverbrook suggesting 2A. Don't kid yourself. Either Silverbrook or Newington Forest is eventually going to Lake Braddock. Understandably, all of these good people would prefer it the other guy. This does not make them bad.
yes, and these same "good people" are pretty mean spirited in how they talk about Mason Neck.
1046,
You are right Lake Braddock will have more space in two years. The board should plan to use the space now and not wait. It is better that kids start at LB rather than go to SCSS for 7th or 8th grade and THEN go to LB.
That's rignt. Start with just 7th grade kids now, and go from there. That way, no child will be moved from SCSS, they will just start at Lake Braddock after elementart school.
And keep Crosspointe whole by splitting Silverbrook North of Lake Mercer Park and East of Silverbrook Rd. That leaves Crosspointe together and Triple ridge at SCSS.
Hmmm, doesn't that keep Silverline Rd. in SC?
Redistricting just that little bit of Silverbrook won't redistrict enough kids out of SC.
I don't have the figures on the number of kids in this area I describe but the three combined subdivisions is about 1100 homes. The rest of the proposed split in option 2b is about 523 homes. So the area I propose to go to LBSS is about 2/3rds as many homes as the option 2b. Could we say that is about 375 kids? That is a good chunk and leaves Mrs. Bradsher at her SCSS and leaves what little diverse population in this area also at South County.
Did you know that the legal subdivision of Crosspointe is all south of Silverbrook Rd.
If the school board lets Mason Neck and Lorton Valley stay, why can’t they let the rest of Lorton Station stay at South County? Sending a small portion of Lorton Station to Hayfield won’t matter. Maybe the school board shouldn’t send anyone to Hayfield and just use Lake Braddock.
What if the school board sends part of Silverbrook, w/o Crosspoint, to Lake Braddock and Newington Forest to Hayfield? That way South County will stay under capacity.
Because the school board will never make Newington Forest an island to Hayfield. The best options are 2A and 2B which send both sides of SCSS to other schools.
6:40,
Part of Crosspointe IS north of Silverbrook. Not that it should affect a SB decision to redistrict schools.
SB, please vote 2a! By sending NF to LB, you are keeping neighborhoods and schools together!
Silverline road is in the legal subdivion of silverbrook forest not Crosspointe. I know they have a wall that says Crosspointe. Maybe it is the poormans crosspointe section.
7:58, Wrong, get a map. Silverline Drive is in the legal subdivision of Crosspointe.
You people are pathetic. Now you are intent on discussing where certain people live, degrading where they live and promoting to split a community. Get a life and move out of this county, please for the sake of decency. Oh and take a course in map reading and do seek therapy. Perhaps Dr. Phil will have you 3 bloggers on his show. He has a website...
Whenever the North Silverbrook people disagree with someone, they tell that blogger to move. They said it last night, they have even said it to the people in their own communities who want to get redistricted to Lake Braddock.
I am a Barrington 2B supporter.
Excuse me, Maps do not denote the LEGAL subdivisions. Look up any address on Silverline in the public tax records and not one is in the subdivision of Crosspointe. This issue is all about were certain be people live and those on the "wrong" side of the tracks are not wanted at SCSS. If I have to leave SCSS, which is 2 miles away from my home in Lorton Station, then those in Barrington and South Run Oaks can leave as well since they are also two miles away from SCSS.
Actually 7:58 is right, although the ADC map I have does denote this area as Silverbrook Forest and the public records does descibe it legally as Silverbrook Forest. Anyway the split he proposes does take 2/3 of the split for silverbrook from the option 2B split and leaves the closest area near Hooes Rd. If Barrington wants to go to LBSS they should talk to the School Board about this possibility as something that could help with the crowded situation as SCSS while leaving as much of Silverbrook intact. Seems like Lake Mercer Park is a reasonable natural border.
I think splitting Silverbrook populations along Silverbrook Road into North and South will be a more even divide.
South County will still be slightly OC under the original 2b. Decreasing the proposed number of redistricted areas is just going to increase the OC at SC.
2A and 2B are fine if they send only rising 7 to LBSS. LB can handle another 600-700 students but them need to come slowly.
Mason Neck should stay at SCSS for many reasons.
109
You are blogging at 1:09 AM and you tell us to get a life?
Look, this is all politics. That is what boundary gerrymandering is about. School Board members are politicians hired ... to play politics. If F&P would have been politically astutue they would have drawn a boundary for 2B that left Bradsher at SCSS. They could of justified it many ways. Now the board has to deal with a well organized group with a fired up, smart and energetic leader.
The point is that F&P isn't supposed to play political games. It is supposed to make logical recommendations to best place capacity without regard to where any self-important bigwig lives.
In the case of South County, 2B is the best option.
You can't win if you don't play and we don't live in Utopia. Everything is about politics and porposing an option that is politically unfeasible is a waste of time and effort.
LB and HF has the smae available space so the "capacity issue" is dead. The only reason that LB is not in the current staff reccomendation is politics. The SB community are great politicans -- good for them -- they are doing what is best for them and so far are winning. That is the way the system is designed and they have taken full advantage of it. Mason Neck has done the same thing and have also been sucessful. Heck even Hayfield has been sucessful at the politics this time.
Politics is the reason the Mason neck and Silverbrook will stay at SCSS and NF will head to Lake Braddock.
Dale should do an annual administrative boundary change with South Oaks Run and then Barrington. No Grandfathering. The GTC kids should be back at South County unless their base school is changed to LB. They might be a swap for MS but more HS would be at LB. NF to LB is foolish since some might end up at LH or Halley.
That is good point on the NF to LB. The whole "don't split Silverbrook" argument hardly applies when LH is going to change the boundaries anyway.
The new LH will change the boundaires at LS and Gunston as well.
We really need to send students to LB and HF next year, but it sure would have helped to have the LH boundaires ahead of time.
2A, 2A, 2A is the best for all!!!
No split to Newington Forest, no 2A. So split to Silverbrook, no 2B.
925 actual empty seats at Hayfield, 812 actual empty seats at Mt. Vernon. Sending anyone to LBSS without opening up discussion on MT. Vernon
would be a mistake.
Please get over your, what appears to be a vendetta about Silverbrook, and move ahead with a logical movement of students to Hayfield and for the future Mt. Vernon.
925 empty seats at Hayfield, 812 empty seats at Mt. Vernon, costs of total renovation for those 2 schools $80 million, saying no one can go to Mt. Vernon because of it's location and then saying it is OK to ship Lorton Valley to Hayfield or Silverbrook to LBSS because of their close location to SC and their 7-8+ miles to Hayfield and LBSS? respectively???? Well that is just PRICELESS.
What's on the agenda are 3 secondaries: SC, LB and H. Option 2A does not split Newington Forest. Eveybody from that school would attend LB. That is a much better option than to cruelly divide Silverbrook.
There are not 925 "actual" seats at Hayfield. That is just spin and intellectually dishonest. There is space and we welcome more kids, but that is riduculous. The space available to rising 9th graders at Lake Braddock and Hayfield is is about the same @ 750.
Maybe two years from now when SCSS wants to do this again you can include Mount Vernon, but leave Hayfield out of it, but you better keep Mason Neck if you want that to happen!
Lorton Valley and Mason Neck should stay at SCSS in this round. The rest of it can be fixed in phase II.
11:10
With LH coming all of the ES boundaries will change. Trying to avoid split feeders now is impossible. In the east EVERY ES is split including Gunston, Lorton Station, Halley and eventually Laurel Hills. The new SB and NF boundaries will certainly be split as well.
If the School Board decides to keep Lorton Valley & Mason Neck at SC, how many students will be sent over to Hayfield? about 100, 200 or less? and everybody is okay with that? Wont that still keep SC OC and Hayfield under? Good for Hayfield.
I think this is correct: if LV & MN stay at SC, Hayfield will have 367 students sent over. Hayfield & Lake Braddock need about 500 each in order for SC to get under, anything else would keep SC OC or OC Hayfield or Lake Braddock. Check the numbers bloggers and post what you get. It's seems Lorton Valley & Mason Neck can not stay at SC, one has to go. Or Lake Braddock will have to take on more students, and that's not fair.
Nobody is advocating to not use Hayfield. We just want to make sure that Lake Braddock is used AS WELL.
Nobody is advocating to not use Hayfield. We just want to make sure that Lake Braddock is used AS WELL.
Mount Vernon could be filled with a domino and swapping Sandburg /Whitman. Mount Vernon could also be turned into a secondary school with less elementary feeders. There are numerous other configurations this county can explore. One is TJ is a dump and would need an addition so FCPS could split it into 3 schools - MV 800, South Lakes 700, and Falls Church 800. People would send thier kids.
How do you use Mount Vernon? Send Mason neck all 93 kids boy that helps alot. Would you also send Lorton Station. Gee I am sure that would be a nice drive up RT. 1 during rush hour then add BRAC in a few years. Mount Vernon is not an option it is too far away. Why does Silverbrook insist on a community school at the same time wanting to send part of their community way out to Mount Vernon? LBSS is a good school that is not that far away, some from the Western side are going to have to go to Lake Braddock. The sooner you realize that the sooner you can accept it and move on.
Mason Neck or Lorton Valley need to go to Hayfield. Hayfield, & Lake Braddock will take about 500 students. That is what the school board has to vote for.
If the board agrees to send northern Silverbrook to Lake Braddock what is the chance the next board will overturn that and keep them at SCSS?
If they decide to wait, what is the chance the new board will take any action?
The bottom line, Mason Neck or Lorton Valley need to go to Hayfield this phase. Lake Braddock will get the rest in the next phase. Both Hayfield & Lake Braddock need about 500 students back to relieve the OC at SC.
LB needs to get some AY 07-08 just like Hayfield. We all know full well that if we let the northwest side "delay", it will never happen.
I have not posted before but have been reading this blog for months. The animosity that has been festering ever since the first boundary study is beyond anything that I have ever seen and it is tragic that very few people have developed an appreciation for what is best for all. A comment was made a few days that pointed out the the SCSS pyramid is the only one in Fairfax County without a middle school. The other 3 secondary schools -- Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and Robinson -- each have capacities around 4000 where SCSS (which is really SCHS) was designed for 2500 students. To say that the SCSS pyramid doesn't need a middle school -- despite having capacity at LBSS and Hayfield -- is missing the point about having a community school where you have 5 natural feeders (Lorton Station, Gunston, Silverbrook, Halley and Newington Forest). Those are the schools that comprise (ir should anyway) the SCSS pyramid. So, what's the solution?
As you know, we have overcrowding at Lorton Station ES and Silverbrook ES which is why the Laurel Hill ES is being accelerated. Why not use the Laurel Hill ES funding (with some supplemental funding from the sale of land) and build the middle school for grades 6-8 with a GT center? That relieves the overcrowding at LSES and Silverbrook, takes some pressure off LBSS and moves the South County middle school G/T students much closer to home, AND affords the County time to evaluate what many of us believe will be a substantial boost in enrollment at Hayfield as a result of the BRAC. Keep in mind that the EPG (where the bulk of the BRAC will land) is fairly equidistant between West Springfield HS, Lee HS, SCSS, and Hayfield. Of the 4, only Hayfield has capacity.
So let's stop imploding our Greater Lorton community, work toward a real solution, and convince the School Board to balance the SCSS pyramid by converting the Laurel Hill ES to a right-sized middle school (about 1900) for grades 6-8 with a GTC. We all talk about keeping our communities together. This does it. And the only folks who might be upset about this are some Laurel Hill parents who would continue to send thier children to Silverbrook 2 miles up the road (or Halley if they rebalance the elementary school enrollments).
Thank you for your comments on this proposal.
Hayfield does not have a capacity of 4000, LBSS and Robinson do. Your proposal will not work. The crowding at the elementary schools are severe and more of a priority for relief then the so called "need" for a middle school. You must not have any elementary school age kids if you propose helping the older 7-12 grade kids over the younger k-6 grade kids stuck outside in trailers. Older kids and the school staff can handle the crowded sitiuation much better then the elementary schools. Hayfield will do its share of relieving SCSS, LBSS must also be used. That is the solution for all, its only political wrangling that keeps an obvious fix from occuring. Now the county will have to go through another time consuming and costly study to do what they need to do now. USE LAKE BRADDOCK!
Actually, I have 3 elementary school children and with a middle school that would have grade 6 (which is what the elementary schools have now), you relieve the overcrowding at the schools (again there is some capacity at Halley which can take some more of the LSES and Silverbrook students if needed) and, as importantly, take 6th graders out of a school where there are Kindergartners. Most experts agree that middle schools should be grades 6-8 and frankly, I would be more comfortable with kids that 'old' being clustered with kids who are also going through that awkard 'teen transition' than having them share space with 5-year-old children.
There is little question that Hayfield has capacity, but it wouldn't it be nice for the School Board to plan AHEAD and leave the space for a few years while Hayfield's enrollments start to swell with the BRAC implementation?
The best way to plan ahead is to look at what the Elementary school feeders are sending and then leave some "buffer room" for BRAC (and the normal error rate and other pressures on the capacity). Both LB and HF have @750 spaces available to rising 9th. The board should PLAN AHEAD and use about 400-500 at each school. The F&P plan does this for the kids from Lorton Station, but fails to use Lake Braddock. The board should use both schools.
Unless kids have been held back multiple years, there are no teenagers in 6th grade. 6th graders may be starting to develop, but they are still children and should be in an elementary school environment. There is no need for them to be exposed to 8th graders.
We lived in a different community where middle school did start in 6th. My oldest had to deal with the situation. The language, the clothes, attitudes, social "sophistication" of 8th graders were all too much for the 6th graders. Now that we live in FCPS, my younger 2 have the luxury of being kids for one extra year. They are still learning the same material academically, it's just that they don't have to be exposed to teenage life as 11 y.o.
South County has been designated as a secondary. That's why grades 7-8 are offered. I would have been fine with Option 1 but that is a clearly unpopular choice with many others. The School Board must vote for Option 2A.
I would not like my 6th grade child going to middle school. I agree with 8:30, they are just too young. I have never had a problem with 6th grade children and kindergarten children at the same school. To delay moving the west side of SCSS to Lake Braddock will result in another ugly, expensive boundary study. None of us need that. Move the west side now. Option 2A is the best because it does not split communities.
The fact is Hayfield has 925 empty seats. This #comes from Facilities. A certain % of students must go back to Hayfield simply because it is so underutilized and because SCSS is so OC due to poor planning.
At this point in time with no real available room it would be foolish to move anyone to LBSS. Time will tell on that issue.
So this leaves SC with a capacity problem for the future and no MS. A MS will have to be built simply because the school's factility is one of a HS. If it remains a Secondary school then FCPS must spend at $10+ million on making necessary building changes.
The LHES is already in the queue and it is needed to resolve severe OC problems at the local ESs. The land for the MS is there, the $$$ is not. It will take some time.
This blog is full of conjecture, misinformation and animosity. Since it is a Hayfield blog it is more than disappointing since many of us gave personal family time and supported this school because our children attended there. This blog is a very sad commentary on a Secondary community many of us were once part of.
Lake Braddock has 750 seats next year for 9th grade?
Look at the CIP, LB will have 30 seats in the middle school & 281 seats in the high school. LB can not take students until 2009.
Hayfield has 274 ms seats & 627 hs seats. They can take SOME students next year. Lorton Valley OR Mason Neck need to go to Hayfield next year.
Hayfield & Lake Braddock can take About 500 students each to help South County with its OC.
At the first SCSS boundary study the option of making SCSS into a high school only was given, and nobody wanted it, and everyone demanded that it be a secondary school. Now, you have a problem with it being a secondary school! This was not the school board's decision, but a community decision, live with it! There are seats at Lake Braddock, and they need to be used. Starting with just 7th graders would be a good idea. If you don't like the set-up at South County, see if you can get your neighborhood moved to LB or H. You could also pupil place to those schools.
on this proposal by:
1/29/2007 12:37 AM
Go to the end of the CIP document which conveniently lists all schools by cluster and pyramid. Marshall/Kilmer is 1500+850=2350 capacity. Stuart/Glasgow is 2650 for 7-12. There are other similar matchups including Chantilly/Franklin actual South akes/Hughes which is co-located.
9:23
Saying that Hayfield has 925 empty seats is spin and just silly. Sure those seats are there this year, but that has no relevance as to what is available over the next few years. The board has already made boundary changes that will consume some of those seats over the next four years. If they do nothing next year's Freshmen will see only 750 empty seats when they are Seniors -- JUST LIKE Lake Braddock! Both schools should take 400-500 students.
If there are 331 seats, LB can certainly start taking @ 50-75 rising 7th graders next year. More room could be made if the GTC is downsized or moved. Even if we must wait till 2009, the board should plan NOW for who goes and when. Waiting til 2009 means you will be moving 7-8-9 instead of just rising 7. Kids already attending SCSS will be jerked out. For what? Let them be Bruins from the start.
We have predictions and we should use them for BOTH schools. Everything is based on predictions. Predictions are more "real" than looking at current numbers.
All I can say is that the only three existing secondary school have capacities hovering around 4000; the 6th graders turn 12 beginning after September 30th of their fifth grade year; and the overcrowding of the elementary school can be addressed with a 6-8 middle school. Building that school -- and not Laurel HIll ES -- satisifies everyone in the community (save a few folks from Laurel HIll who are the newest residents in the SCSS boundary by the way) and deals with the real problem which is that the SCSS was never designed as a HS. If the 'community' wanted to make it a secondary school, it was never voted upon by the communities outside of Newington Forest, Halley, and Silverbrook. I doubt if that vote were taken today it would have the same resounding outcome, even from the aforementioned communities. A decision that was made several years ago before all of the new residents (since 2000) started moving into South County isn't a community decision at all. It's an entitlement philosophy that is outdtated and franly, seperatist. I can understand why that original core group wanted to use (and still use) I-95 as a boundary but they discarded the oldest residents of the Greater Lorton area in an effort to transform a public school (funded by public dollars) into a somewhat elitist (and homogenous) secondary school. It was wrong then and even more egregious today. Shame on all for trying to turn te clock back to 1954. I thought we had moved past all that, especially in a school system that is now majority-minority.
9:23
This blog was started by Hayfield and the Hayfield message is at the start. However, the comments are anonymous and come from all over. Please do not associate the nastiness and misinformation with Hayfield. HF has been clear that we welcome students back to the nest - we just don't want too may and we want some stability.
Those like yourself that claim we have 925 seats without clarification infuriates us. It is just pure BS. It shows either a lack of intellect or an unsavory attempt to spin the truth. Likewise, claiming that LB has no space is even more misinformation. Look beyond today. Look at what the feeder schools have in them -- that is the "real" amount of space.
I'm sick & tired hearing that the west side is trying to make SC "somewhat elitist". Hayfield has room for SC students. I don't care who the SB sends, LV or MN. One has to go. Hayfield can take 500 students w/ room left over for what ever they want to do with it. Lake Braddock will have room LATER. LB should not give up the GTC or move it to the high school.
LB has room for rising 7 next year. I am sorry that the truth is making you sick and tired.
You want the truth?
NFers can't handle the truth!
I think moving the GT at Lake Braddock over to the HS area is a good idea. Look at the capacity numbers at LB, less seats in the middle school because the GT is taking the space. These kids work on advanced programs anyway. They could move back to the middle school section once LB numbers decline.
30 seats at Lake Braddock for middle school, you call that room. 281 seats for high school. So the school board should put Lake Braddock at capacity?
Send Lorton Valley OR Mason Neck to Hayfield. They have the space, they should not be at 87% when this is all over.
Lake Braddock can have students sent over in 2 years.
Both Hayfield & Lake Braddock can take 500 students.
Is LB HS and MS divided like Hayfield? Can it be easisly reconfigured like you suggest? What would LB say? What would F&P say?
Why don't you ask them?
With over 300 seats available next year rising 7 should go to LB. It would be better to do it that way then to wait until they are rising 9th graders and jerk them out of SCSS.
10:25 - And it will save us all another expensive boundary study. As a taxpayer, I am getting a little fed up with all these boundary studies. Does anyone know how much they cost?
I know the answers. I want to see what the bloggers will say. :)
1. LB is divided, but not like Hayfield. It is more easily reconfigured. The GTC capacity and utilization makes the numbers strange so you have to be careful what you are looking at.
2. LB will say. "No way can we reconfigure. We are tool full now"
3. F&P will say that LB is the most flexible Secondary school building and could easily be reconfigured.
Another boundary study will take place for Hayfield if they take only 367 students from SC. They need to take Lorton Valley or Mason Neck. Unless, Lorton Valley or Mason Neck want to go to Mt. Vernon. Lake Braddock will have room later. Both Hayfield & Lake Braddock need 500 students. No middle school is needed, we have the capacity at schools.
Since the conversation keeps focusing on who goes (and how many) should go to Hayfield and Lake Braddock, no one is interested in trying to convert Laurel HIll into a 'no-cost' middle school? I really don't get it, especially when it would satify just about all the problems for EVERYONE involved, regardless of which side of the tracks you live on. Oh well...
How would you feel if someone said to you that your area needs to go to Mt. Vernon or West Po. eventhough you live no more than 1.5 miles or so from Hayfield? How would you feel it others wrote about your community with ill feelings and animosity? How would you feel knowing you had a school down or up the street from you and your children could not atttend due to political manuevering? How would you feel if your community was dragged through the mud because they dared to question and take a stand?
I think it is fair to say you wouldn't like it and you would be very discouraged that otheres were deciding your fate against your own needs.
You don't know the needs of others untill you live in thier shoes--so to speak. Remember that for what goes around comes around.
Move students to LBSS now. Later may never happen. The west side of SCSS could get their way, and taxpayers will pay for a school that is not needed.
Converting LH to a 6-8 MS had been studied. Unfortuntately what was found was that the school would be too big for the grade configurations. A MS of 1600-1900 is simply too big and is not favored at FCPS. Look at the Annandale pyramid etc.
Converting LH to a 6-8 MS had been studied. Unfortuntately what was found was that the school would be too big for the grade configurations. A MS of 1600-1900 is simply too big and is not favored at FCPS. Look at the Annandale pyramid etc.
1038, are you saying mt. vernon or west pot. are not good schools? I thought all schools in fcps were good. The space is available at all schools, I'm not saying one community is better than the other. I'm saying we have room at schools, lets use them. Lorton Valley or Mason Neck need to go back to Hayfield, they need about 500 students to help out the OC at SC. Lake Braddock will take 500 later, Silverbrook or Newington Forest will go. This study has gotten out of control, and too political. Let's do the right thing. But I'm sure the school board will keep SC oc.
There is room for both LV and MN at SCSS if we use LB appropriately. The 'excess space' at HF will be consumed with in-fill developments -- not to worry. No need for another study. Use LB now.
All schools are good. But you know exactly what I was saying. The SB made a political mistake and the constituents will pay for such a mistake one way or the other. No one should be bussed to a school that is 7 or 8 miles away when they could basically walk to another. That does not make sense.
All schools are good. But you know exactly what I was saying. The SB made a political mistake and the constituents will pay for such a mistake one way or the other. No one should be bussed to a school that is 7 or 8 miles away when they could basically walk to another. That does not make sense.
It would be a big MS, but not unmanageable. If we can have high schools that have between 2500 and 2800 kids (who are WAY more unruly than middle school students), it would seem to me that the 6-8 option could work. It deserves another look, particularly in light of what this boundary recommendation is doing to the larger community as a whole. LSES is 1.6 miles from SCSS and 5-minutes away -- traffic or no traffic. How is it fair that the closest elementary school (and most diverse -- by far) is the one that is made into a split feeder? By the way, I understand that the Lorton Station subdivision will become a split subdivision under the boundary recommendation. Wouldn't that make them the only split community in the SCSS pyramid (perhaps the Hayfield pyramid as well)? Doesn't FCPS policy prevent them from splitting communities (subdivisions), even more than they try to avoid having split feeder elementary schools. This whole recommendation seems more titlted toward the 'West' end than anything that has come out of the boundary studies thus far. I hope the School Board reconfigures the recommendation and that someone gives a second thought to making the LHES into a MS before this whole region goes kablooey!
Lorton Valley or Mason Neck need to go back to Hayfield. If not, Hayfield will only get 367 students from Lorton Station. Hayfield needs 500 students, Lake Braddock nedds 500 students to help with the OC at SC. Sorry, but LV & MN can not stay at SC, one has to go. I'll be sure to let the school board know how I feel.
Making LH 6-8 also does not take enough the pressure off of the ES schools in the area -- and how do you deal with 6th graders not going to SCSS for 7th grade? Sounds like a good idea until you get into the details. Also, if you move GTC there for 7-8 LB will have even more excess capacity - might have to shut down a wing.
Ths simple fact is that students need to leave SCSS and any neighborhood that leaves will be in a position where they have to travel further to go to school. Look at all the communities, Silverbrook, Lorton Station, Mason Neck, Newington Forest, etc., they will all have to travel further if they are sent to Hayfield or Lake Braddock. However, 7-8 miles is not that far. Someone has to move, better to do it sooner than later. No middle school with so much space nearby.
1056
I agree that not using LB sure tilts to the west, but someone should return to Hayfield and Lorton Station is the area on the boundary. Who should go? Where was LS in October? Good luck.
9:23 -- 9:46, 9:57 and 10:08 are spot-on. Some West-of-I-95'ers (most especially current SC families living in the northern part of their attedance boundaries) tend to spin the "Hayfield has 900+ slots" factoid to their advantage, while downplaying or flat-out ignoring Lake Braddock's post-renovation capacity. A certain percentage of the SC overflow crowd will almost certainly come back to Hayfield, AND we will welcome whoever comes back. But Hayfield cannot and should not absorb all of the SC overflow -- it MUST be split between Lake Braddock AND Hayfield. THAT'S fair and equitable. BRAC -- the big unknown -- could affect HSS, SCSS, and LBSS and we ALL need to shoulder the split.
BTW, 9:23, I'd like to personally thank YOU for contributing to the misinformation you accuse this blog of perpetuating. Rest assured that folks living in the Hayfield attendance area are just as disappointed as YOU, and are as hurt by the words and actions of a cadre of outspoken and overzealous SC parents, all of whom were once (and apparently glad they were no longer) HAYFIELD SECONDARY parents. To say that Hayfield parents have felt "kicked to the curb" when it comes to having their opinions/positions considered throughout THIS process and the last boundary study is an understatement.
Look, it's no secret -- this blog has always been intended to share information from the Hayfield perspective and to invite debate on that perspective. If you perceive that as a "sad commentary," 9:23, because you don't agree with some of the debate, so be it. Some Hayfielders dislike this blog because it has, unfortunately, turned out to be quite the bare-all, tell-all archive showcasing for the first time how some SC parents really felt about Hayfield Secondary and its families. Please remember that the sword has cut BOTH ways over the years.
After the school board finally votes on this issue on Feb. 22, I will allow discussion/comments to be posted only until the end of February, but will disable commenting on ALL existing posts thereafter. It will have no further value beyond that, and we ALL need to start getting over this.
and two years from now when they do the LHES study?
If Lake Braddock took 75 7th graders from SCSS next year, and left the GT center at the middle school, that would only put them 45 kids over in the middle school. The high school would still be way under capacity (over 300). That is not a problem. Lee and West Springfield are over capacity by more than that! The next year would see 7th and 8th graders at the school, but by that time, the numbers at LB start to decline. We need to use the space now. That way we don't need another boundary study until the BRAC is upon us.
If the recomendation from the SB to keep a 10% buffer at schools is correct, Lake Braddock is at that now and will be for 2 or more years. I know the SB is working with Hayfiled to make sure they stay at a 10% buffer, I think Lake Braddock should have the same buffer. Sending students to LB will put them at or over capacity for years. You would do this to students and a school?
They have the buffer. They can move the GT kids into the high school portion of the school and have plenty of space. As taxpayers, we pay a lot of money for these GT centers. We should not have to end up building a middle school over something that is easily corrected.
BTW, where is West Springfield's buffer? Where is Lee's buffer? BRAC is just around the corner and these are the two closest schools to the EPG. Hayfield should not be the only school used to help out South County. Hayfield is between the EPG (18,000 jobs) and Ft. Belvoir (5,000 jobs). We need to use Lake Braddock seats now.
12:19
The board wanted a 10-15% buffer (read May 8 minutes), but it is impossible to establish that at all three schools without building more capacity. If LB and HF each take 450-500 students from SCSS they will both be @ 92% in the 2011-12 school year. That is about as close to 10% as we can get and be fair. HF can take 7-8-9 next year and LB can start with rising 7th grade. It will all even out in a couple of years and LB will never be OC.
1227
They don't have to move the GTC, just declare some of the "HS" space as "MS" space and/or declare that the GTC is "on the HS side". This is not that hard.
btw, all of the SC GT kids could just stay at LBSS. The bus already picks them up. This could do one of two things. 1) The GTC would get smaller because less SC kids would go -- freeing up more space for SB/NF OR 2)Free up space at SCSS as the GT kids went to LBSS.
The buffer was brought up in conjunction with the current boundary study. West Springfield has had its boundary adjusted and Lee has as well and you would have to presume that those boundaries are not going to change anytime soon Brac or no Brac. The board has an opportunity now too not make the same mistake at West Springfield by building in room for unknown possibilities at Hayfield. I doubt you would get anyone to want to revisit West Springfield boudary, but with Hayfield they should and will bring back students and should do the smart thing and leave wiggle room in case the projections are off as they have been in the past year. The current projections with the boundaries for Hayfield today has the school increasing a little in numbers then basically leveling off 5 years from now. Lake Braddock's projections have that school losing population each of the next 5 years leaving them at 80 percent capacity with the current boundaries. They are full now but room is coming and the school board should plan on using that while also mainting a buffer in the out years. If they do that South County would eventually get to around capacity and a new middle school would not be needed till probably 2015. Funny that is the year the middle school is on the CIP. Could it be that Facilities already had this planned out?
127, I agree but Lake Braddock will not have additional capacity until 09, 10 or later. Why OC that school now & for a few years out. Let's wait for LB capacity. Hayfiled can take some students, and they could use them to help their school. Option 3 is a good start. But the school boad can not keep Lorton Valley & Mason Neck at SC. One has to go. SC will be OC again. Hayfield & Lake Braddock can take 500 students.
No cost middle school; nearly everyone is happy; no split communities or split feeders; no rushing to judgement aboout BRAC impact or LBSS capacity; no 7-10 mile commutes for students; extra time to sleep; more opportunities to participate in extracurricular activities; fair diversity in SCSS vis-a-vis other FCPS schools; should I continue?
I just don't get it folks but I suppose some people like to argue for arguments sake. I guess we have our points of view but I suspect the School Board will look for the biggest win with the least disruption. Maintain SCSS for 2 more years with the split bell (as the principal said he could) and get the new MS operational for Fall 2009.
No more slings needed at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, Laurel HIll, Mason Neck, or anyone else who has been named in this blog. They are all good schools but Lorton kids have no more in common with Hayfield than Fairfax Station kids have in common with Burke. No other communities in the County have to deal with being yanked out of their communities and South County, which is now the economic driver (from a tax perspective anyway) is entitled to the same fairness in building schools as the rest of the county has had for decades.
No harm, no foul people.
1:48 you need to send this as an email to the school board
It is strange that so many people are against LB taking any students even though they have the room. They would rather the SCSS kids stay at 117% and above. I think it is wrong that the Lorton Station area (and possibly LV) are the only ones being moved. LB empty seats should be used now. However, I think the SCSS kids going to Hayfield are the lucky ones. The kids left behind are the ones left in an overcrowded school, staggered schedule, communities that don't get along, more boundary studies, uncertainty about where they will go to school in the future, teachers being transferred from their school, no separate middle and high school, all in a very windy and cold location.
Oh lord, are we going to complain about the whether now? I wonder if the School board can change that.
The whether or the weather?
If the money was available tomorrow there is no way the MS could be operational by the Fall of 2009. 2011 would be reasonable / possible.
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