Due to overcrowding at South County Secondary School, school boundaries for Hayfield Secondary, Lake Braddock Secondary and South County Secondary Schools are once more in question. All affected communities are invited to two important town meetings -- one is this evening, Tuesday, October 10, and the next is on Wednesday, November 1, at 7:30 p.m., both at South County Secondary School's auditorium.
What’s happening to change it?
The Fairfax County School Board is reviewing at least two possible boundary scenarios: making a traditional boundary adjustment based on geography; or eliminating the middle school from South County Secondary and dividing the middle school population (projected at more than 1,000 students) between Hayfield Secondary and Lake Braddock Secondary Schools based on available seats at each school.
What are the desired outcomes?
- Hayfield Secondary School (HSS) should remain under capacity if boundaries are redrawn to allow for future growth. HSS was well over capacity for well over a decade!
- HSS should remain a balanced, diverse and desirable community school, with only elementary schools in the immediately surrounding neighborhoods feeding the school.
- Students should stay at HSS for all six years of middle and high school. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are secondary schools with carefully planned and separate spaces for middle school and high school populations. A large middle school population and a smaller high school population would be detrimental to the educational quality on both sides of the building.
- Transportation routes and bus ride time MUST be considered during the boundary-setting process.
- The school board MUST consider consequences from DoD’s Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process –– with a potential influx of 20,000 workers at Fort Belvoir over the next four years.
What about these town meetings?
Please plan to attend this evening's (Tuesday, October 10) meeting, and be sure to mark your calendar for the follow-up meeting on Wednesday, November 1. Each meeting begins at 7:30 p.m. in the auditorium of South County Secondary School, located at 8501 Silverbrook Rd., Lorton, VA 22079. The meetings will feature group discussions and breakout sessions so the school board can gather data and info from the affected communities. As parents, residents and voters, you are strongly encouraged to attend and prove to the school board that you have a vested interest in the educational needs of your children and the welfare of your community. That’s why it’s important to be there!
2,729 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2201 – 2400 of 2729 Newer› Newest»The F&P reccomendation is good, but but they need to work the details.
Yes, one detail is after this recommendation is adopted, future boundary studies involving SCSS should leave Hayfield out of it. Hayfield will then have more then enough over the next decade and should be allowed to reach a stable growing population over then next 5 years. The current recommendation allows for this stability however still may bring Hayfield close to capacity by 2011 when BRAC gets going.
The only communities who feel a split feeder is good are the ones who get to stay at South County; the Gunston group is a good example of that. I think those people are very self-centered. If the Silverbrook community gets split, than once (if) Lake Braddock’s number go down all of Silverbrook should go to Lake Braddock. Part of Halley should be able to join them. That way all of Fairfax Station will attend schools out west. South County can take in more of the students to the east. Lorton and route one can attend South County. Split feeders are bad for a community; Silverbrook should be able to stay at South County.
All of Gunston and needs to attend the same school, which is Hayfield. The fact that Mason Neck has abandoned the rest of their elementary school is strange. Schools should stay together whenever possible. MN sure has alot of pull for such a small community.
The strange thing about Mason Neck, they claim the commute is too far for them. But why is it okay for a community near Hayfield, I think they are off Beulah, able to attend Gunston E.S. These kids are in elementary school and have to travel from Hayfield to Mason Neck everyday. 9:47, I don’t know how that small community has that much power over the school board. Something is terrible wrong with that.
I think the School Board ought to endorse the 2A option for Lake Braddock. There is no reason why Newington Forest can't be redistricted in its entirety to Lake Braddock instead of slicing Silverbrook. Newington Forest is even closer to LB than Silverbrook.
Why does 9:34, 9:47 and 10:06 sound as if they are written by the same (barely literate) writer?
The option that F&P reccomended is fine. The delay in choosing SB or NF to LBSS is unecessary, but this way the new board can make the decision. Hopefully they will be in a better position to decide.
10:22, they are not. You must be from Mason Neck. You may want to run your blog through spell/grammar check.
Is it possible that the board supports Mason Neck's desire to go to SCSS because it is the right thing to do? Not every decision is political. This one seems to be a no brainer. MN is much farther from Hayfield then the Lorton Station area and those 88 kids hardly affect the numbers.
If you trade Lorton Valley for MN the board will have to send more of SB to LBSS to make up the difference. Is this what you want?
Keeping Mason Neck at South County is a political move. Mason Neck was added to South County at the last minute during the first boundary study. They were split off from the rest of their school just because the Mason Neck area wanted to go to South County. The Silverbrook community is just as far away from Lake Braddock, as Mason Neck it to Hayfield. Silverbrook should not be split, and should stay at South County. Mason Neck should return to Hayfield.
That should read: Mason Neck is to Hayfield. They need a spell check on this blog.
I don't understand the political capital the School Board receives from adding MN to SCSS, and for keeping them there this time. The 88 seats from MN equates to 4 full classrooms at SCSS. They should attend Hayfield with their Gunston brethren.
Lorton Valley is over 150, if you switch them out with MN SCSS will have more students, not less. There is not enough room to have them both attend Hayfield (the original Option #3) that is why F&P moved someone out.
LS is split, Halley will be split now, Laurel Hills will certainly be split ... why not Gunston also? If you really want to avoid split feeders, then we should have drawn the LHES first.
Wow, every Elementary School on the Hayfield-South County Border is or will be split ... even Halley ES which is not on the border? How could that be?
Mason neck is a natural split from the rest of Gunston. Most of the kids going to Gunston ES around Pohick, The kids don't know each other outside of school. The area of Gunston going to Hayfield wants to stay at Hayfield. There is no neighborhood off of Beulah that goes to Gunston. All those areas go to either Island Creek or Lane which feed Hayfield. I was out on business in Mason Neck yesterday so I clocked the mileage and time to Hayfield since I was going that way. From Mount Vernon Blvd to Hayfield via Gunston Rd. Old Colchester Rd. and Telegraph Rd. It was about 11 miles and 20 minutes. Now this was a holiday and in the middle of the day and it is probably not the route of the bus, but it is hardly closer then Silverbrook to LBSS. I suspect the time is much more on a morning rush hour and no Brac yet!
Is there a "natural split" in Lorton Station ES and/or Halley as well? How about Silverbrook -- that is a strange boundary?
Sorry, the community that goes to Gunston is not off Beulah, it is off Hayfield Rd, or near it. It is Cook Inlet, Ciri Lake Lane. If you mapquest Gunston to Hayfield or Silverbrook to Lake Braddock, you will see the distance is about the same. Some live closer and some live further out. Mason Neck may be a natural split from Gunston, but how can you say splitting up the Silverbrook community is right. Crosspointe is on both sides of Silverbrook Rd. Silverbrook road is a small road, with communities on each side of it. There is no natural split. Silverbrook should stay at South County.
Silverbrook is a large elementary school even when it gets back down to it's normal capacity. Rename it Crosspoint . Crosspoint is huge and could be a split feeder. Gunston should get a boundary chnag since it is overcrowded. This blog should call it Crosspoint not Silverbrrok and Halley is only a split feeder becasue it has a load from eastern silverbrook.
3:03
I don't know which map you are looking at because Cook inlet is off Rt.1 not anywhere near Hayfield Rd. Point is MN does not crowd anything with its numbers. If you want to get more bang for the buck then you need to move a more dense area such as Newington Forest or Part or all of Silverbrook. If you move all of Gunston and Lorton Station to Hayfield your just relieving one school at the expense of the other. The bottom line is if we want SCSS to be down under capacity then you have to include LBSS in the equation or build another school.
We need to fix the split feeders, not create more. Newington Forest, Halley and Silverbrook were the natural choices to attend SCSS when they were pulled from Hayfield. Gunston was not pulled, so MN should once again attend Hayfield. Was Lorton Station attending Lee before the creation of SCSS? If so, that's where they belong.
and you cannot compare the distance from Gunston ES to SC and Silverbrook to LB and use Mason Neck in the same sentence. Mason Neck has a ways to go just to get to Gunston ES. The Silverbrook Community that is slated to go to LB is closer to LB than the ES.
The people in MN chose to live there knowing the transportation situation and knowing they were in the Hayfield boundary. They talk community but split so easily from their ES community. Why do they so dearly want SCSS? Silverbrook is far closer to SCSS than MN, for that matter so is Lorton Valley. Both could very well have walkers.
The communte to Hayfield has only been improved with Rt 1 and other roads. MN has to travel either way you look at it, Lorton Valley, Newington Forest, SB and others don't. The logic on this blog is questionable!
For every student from Mason Neck and Lorton Station that goes to SCSS it is a student from Silverbrook or NF that will be going to Lake Braddock in a couple of years. We can argue all we want, but that is what this is really about. If there was space at SCSS then the Crosspointe community would nor be so anti-Mason Neck. We might still be anti-Lorton Station, but not anti-Mason neck.
MN didn't choose the site of SCSS. If Silverbrook didn't hijack the process for building new schools SCSS very well could have ended up closer to Mason Neck and Silverbrook could be looking at LBSS as their natural community school. The commute to LBSS is not bad either, RT 123 and other roads have been improved.
MN didn't ask for Gunston to be split. In fact the area of Gunston around Pohick Rd. should not even be at Gunston now but it is due to the way this part of the County developed. When Lorton Station Opened it was a huge battle over who would go to that ES. It could have easily been redrawn with this part going to Lorton station and South of Lorton Rd. going to Gunston. It was not to be, but that can be fixed and these splits could also be fixed. Frankly far to much concerne is given to Mason Neck's 93 students. What do you have against this area, I don't even live there, I just don't want to see too much come back to Hayfield. Send MN back to Hayfield I dont care but who would you swap out? Lorton Valley? That works even better for Hayfield.
... and all of this will be fought over again in two years with the new Elementary school! Maybe all of Gunston could go to SCSS.
Option #3 sends Lorton Vally AND Mason Neck. That leaves more room for Silverbrook/NF to stay at SCSS. No need to swap out.
4:17
I think in a couple years, Hayfield will be targeted again to take more of the burden so that the annoited ones in the western part of South County will not have to leave. All I can say is they better fiqure out a way to build a new school and sell it to the tax payers because there will be an uproar across the county if in two years they dump more on Hayfield while LBSS becomes more and more sparse.
4:35
Yes and Option 3 also puts Hayfield on the Brink of overcrowding in a few years. Option 2 leaves a good buffer and relieves the crowding at SCSS by 15 percent more then Option 3. Isnt that what you want?
Adopt the Recommendation Leave Hayfield out of it in 2008, it is time some other school deal with SCSS, that school really is irritating the rest of us.
Get real. There will be no uproar if Hayfield is dumped on. We were overcrowded for many years and no one cared. If SCSS was not built it would still be overcrowded. The overcrowding at Hayfield will not happen for over 4-5 years and by then there will be a bunch of other reasons not to care about Hayfield.
Good point 5:03,
I have to remember noone cares about have in the past, the present, or probably the future. I guess I should talk to parents of kids in the 3rd to 5th grades, they have the kids that will be rushing through the future crowded halls of Hayfield if Silverbrook and Newington Forest get what they want. Two of those kids are mine and I will make all the noise for Hayfield that I can.
Don’t worry Hayfield, I’m sure the school board will come up with another amendment and Hayfield will only have a handful of kids sent back, if any. South County will be the school that will be overcrowded for many years.
What are you talking about, it is not as if Hayfield is like another school that can magically shrink in the face of getting larger boundaries. Not sure how they do it. It has to be the only building that gets gets smaller after renovations and additions.
5:40,
You are probably correct. I think they will amend the F&P reccomendation to keep Lorton Valley at SCSS (and keep Mason Neck there as well), but that will still send a good number to Hayfield. It will also set up Hayfield to take more in two years when it is looked at again and the LHES boundary is made. In two years, Hayfield will yet to see the full impact of the boundary change and will still appear to be undercapacity. It will be an excuse to send more to Hayfield (those on the east side of I-95). Lake Braddock numbers will be coming down, but "not enough" so Silverbrook and NF will continue at SCSS.
SCSS will remain overcrowded because the board will refuse to use Lake Braddock.
Eventually, Hayfield will be overcrowded and the Middle School will be built. No one from Hayfield will be redistricted back to SCSS to compensate.
5:40,
You are probably correct. I think they will amend the F&P reccomendation to keep Lorton Valley at SCSS (and keep Mason Neck there as well), but that will still send a good number to Hayfield. It will also set up Hayfield to take more in two years when it is looked at again and the LHES boundary is made. In two years, Hayfield will yet to see the full impact of the boundary change and will still appear to be undercapacity. It will be an excuse to send more to Hayfield (those on the east side of I-95). Lake Braddock numbers will be coming down, but "not enough" so Silverbrook and NF will continue at SCSS.
SCSS will remain overcrowded because the board will refuse to use Lake Braddock.
Eventually, Hayfield will be overcrowded and the Middle School will be built. No one from Hayfield will be redistricted back to SCSS to compensate.
That is called the big Dump em on Hayfield scenario, that Silverbrook is orchestrating. It must not be allowed to happen, we are just as deserving of a stable community school as Lake Braddock and South County are.
The Silverbrook community is not saying Hayfield should not have a community school, they should. Hayfield needs SOME students back, and you know it. But it seems, the areas that would go back do not want to. Maybe the school board should wait, see what happens at other schools and then do the boundary study. Hell, if Lake Braddock has the room, send the Fairfax Station area to that school. But keep them together. Send the rest of Lorton and route one to South County. Hayfield can help out other schools.
sounds like a good idea, but SCSS needs some short term relief.
Option 1 would have provided short term relief until a middle school could have been built.
Option one also would have overcrowded middle schools at both Lake Braddock and Hayfield. Hayfield' middle school would be larger then the High school and require mixing the middles school side in with the High school side.
Option #1 would have provided some temporary relief to SCSS and place a huge (permanent) burden on Lake Braddock and Hayfield. I sure hope that option is dead. It would be better to bring in double decker trailers than to do that plan.
6:31 AM,
SCSS is already mixing middle and high school students. So that shouldn't be a problem.
It is a problem at SCSS. A serious problem. We could go on for a long time listing the problems with Option #1. This blog did that long ago. Let it go. It is bad from every educated perspective.
7:49
SCSS is designed as a High School so it has to mix. Hayfield is designed as two schools sharing common areas such as gyms and cafeterias. If you do option one you not only overcrowd the middle school but you also bring in kids who have no interest in the school because they are moving on in a short two years. Problems already exist between Hayfield and SC students we don't need to have them exist in the same building with crowded halls. That is a recipe for disaster and just bad for all the students in all three schools. Advocates of option one must not have middle school age children or they would be against doing this option.
Option 2a is the way to go. Silverbrook doesn't get split. Newington Forest doesn't get split. Hayfield and Lake Braddock are both used in the SC OC solution.
Yes, switch Lorton Valley with Mason Neck. It will only add about another 80 kids to SCSS. Only 80 kids, what difference will 80 kids make? Isn't that the Mason Neck mantra?
Keep Lorton Valley and Mason neck at SCSS. They are key to getting the Middle School built.
10:59 - I don't want a middle school built. There is plenty of space at Hayfield, Lake Braddock, Mt. Vernon and West Potomac. We all pay enough taxes already. Use the available space.
Actually, option 2A is the best option. If you look at the numbers on the hand out, it works for all communities. I know it will put Newington Forest at Lake Braddock, but in the long run, it will work to their advantage.
11:34 - I agree. 2A balances the numbers, does not split any communities that are not already split and gives us time to evaluate if a new middle school is really needed. It uses the empty seats that we are already paying for. It does not ask Lorton Valley to go to Hayfield when it is just down the road from SCSS, (and I am not a Lorton Valley resident,) it puts SCSS at capacity instead of 117%, and it does not put a burden on Hayfield by keeping it at 90% capacity. To not use option 2A is just political.
Thank you so much. I am so happy to read people actually discussing what is the best option for all communities and not just there own. To accept any option which does not bring SCSS under capacity is wrong. I live in Lorton Station and would be very happy with this whole process if Lake Braddock was being used and the numbers at SCSS went below capacity. Any other option accepted by the school board will be viewed as being political and looked at individuals just wanting to get rid of the east side of 95.
I live in the Silverbrook community and I feel option 2 is the best. I prefer option 2a only because it will not split more schools. If option 2b is selected, then I feel the school board should think about moving the entire Fairfax Station area over to Lake Braddock eventually. Splitting the Silverbrook/Fairfax Station will hurt that community in the long run. Selecting option 2a will help out South County sooner. This study has become too political and I feel we need to do what is best for South County, the students, and communities. By selecting option 2a I think we can accomplish that. I know some areas will be mad about this, but they need to think about what is best for all. If 2b is chosen, it will be a little more difficult to move the entire Fairfax Station out of South County, but I’m sure it can be done. So please email the board and tell them how you feel.
I agree. In order to get this option passed people need to email their school board members. If not this current option will pass and our children will go to an over crowded school. Under this option my children will be going to Hayfield but atleast I will have some satisfaction knowing SCSS is under capacity. Please email the school board.
2a continues the split of Lorton Station ES, splits Halley ES, and sets up Laurel Hills to be split! How can you say it does not split more schools? That's just crazy talk. It sounds like someone is blogging themselves ...
SCSS will be overcrowded for the next few years on all the options. The one proposed by F&P will work when they make the decision of who goes to LBSS. it is going to take a few years to take affect anyway.
2:16,
Nobody is blogging themselves. Option 2 is the best option presented, as is with no amendments.
Of course you want to assume someone is blogging themselves. No one on the west side of 95 wants to leave SCSS. They want the east side to be kicked out and expect Hayfield to take all students. It should not work that way. Every community needs to help fix this problem. Ever Community no matter if you are east or west.
It is wrong that Lorton Station Elementary school kids are the only ones being moved out of SCSS. Children from the west side of SCSS should go to Lake Braddock. 2A is the best solution. SCSS should not be left at 117% capacity.
Lorton Station ES is not the only ES being moved out. Some of Halley (two of the islands on the east side of I-95 so far ...) is moving as well.
Lorton Station is closest to Hayfield, logic dictates students should return there. As for MN going to SC and LV not, there is no logic to that and that needs to be changed. SCSS was not built to deplete Hayfield of students nor add students to LBSS. It was built to respond to a need of capacity first and then transportation for Hayfield Secondary.
Lorton Station is closest to Hayfield, logic dictates students should return there. As for MN going to SC and LV not, there is no logic to that and that needs to be changed. SCSS was not built to deplete Hayfield of students nor add students to LBSS. It was built to respond to a need of capacity first and then transportation for Hayfield Secondary.
When SCSS was built, Hayfield was not the only school in need of relief. Lee and Edison were also way over capacity, while Lake Braddock's numbers were declining. The scope of the first boundary study went way beyond SC and Hayfield. The high schools involved were Hayfield, Lee, SC, Edison and Lake Braddock. Unfortunately, Silverbrook, Halley and NF formed a pact, refused to go to Lake Braddock, and the weak School Board caved in. Then came the attempt to sent West Springfield students to LB. Now we have the current situation. Yes, Lorton Station and Mason Neck should go to Hayfield, but that still leaves SCSS way over capacity. Students need to be moved from the west side of SCSS, and use the empty seats at Lake Braddock. If study 2A or 2B were implemented, there would be no need for a middle school, and numbers would be balanced.
Would you all get it in your thick skulls. Hayfield cannot take all of Gunston and Lorton Station without returning to an overcrowded situation. All of East of 95 will not fit in Hayfield! The sooner we all admit that the sooner we can come to the conclusion that LBSS must be utilized.
Who cares? The main thing is get to get NF, SB, Halley (minus that stuff east of I-95) and Laurel Hills all together. Hayfield can send kids to Mt. Vernon or use trailers if they get overcrowded.
6:04, South County would still be overcrowded if that plan is used. Boy, for a while there, I thought this blog was actually starting to make sense.
Who from Hayfield are you going to send to Hayfield? Hayfield no longer will need trailers if LBSS is used. And the "stuff" east of 95 are people and families, not some piece of trash you put out when you don't need it any longer. NF or Silverbrook must go to LBSS or is that school not good enough for you either?
6:04's idea is the what Brasheer's group has always wanted and continue to push to make that happen. They don't care one once about this area of the county and don't care what happens to Hayfield. If I lived near SCSS I would be pissed that they advocate to keep SCSS overcrowded while hoping for a middle school. The folks in the new homes in Laurel Hill should be sceaming and demanding for option 2
604's idea will work with a Middle School.
Again, a middle school is an unecessary expenditure untll Hayfield and LB seats are filled with former SC kids.
5:57 - I am 5:24 and I didn't mean the whole of Lorton Station, even though that is what I said. I support study 2A and 2B, which would leave Hayfield at 90% capacity. With BRAC coming, it is important to leave space. The "Who cares?" comments of 6:04 are typical of the west of I95 crowd. The fact that the school board is not using Lake Braddock is political and wrong. I also think Hayfield is a much nicer school than SCSS, nicer families, better facility, and more school spirit.
Amend the Recommendation.
Adopt the current recommendation then in the year 2015 if South County population begins to decline bring back those areas that were redistricted from South County to Lake Braddock.
The county wide population is going down for school age kids, whose to say that this will no happen in South County. Shoot I bet you would not even need a middle school.
6:24
Wake up call for you.
Your entire statement is not only incorrect in content but also spelling. Go back check those articles and boundary speeches, don't think anyone from SB said they wanted to keep SC OC. In fact, you need to review this boundary history. Until then find another blog!
Actually anyone who advocates for Option 3 is willing to keep SC way overcapacity.
According to the 2nd Town hall Meeting handout, F&P said Option 3 would mean 113%+ overcapacity for SC while Lake Braddock hovers around the 80% mark.
Not true about LBSS. Check the MS #s and then check the projection. You will see that the projections for this year shows more students than orginally projected at LBSS last year. The MS at LB will be at 1300+ MSs are to hover around 1100 in this county, not 1300 LB has a problem with MS capactiy. SC will need a MS.
Check out the 6th grade (and below) numbers of the schools that feed into LB. The total number of students in these classes is smaller than the population totals of the current LB students. The birth rate is declining.
No not the birth rate the community is going thru a regeneration. Despite that check the MS #s too high. This is years out, why would you send any student to such a big MS?
LB is not overcapacity no matter how the Krosspointe Klan thinks it can spin the numbers. The SB must do what is right for South County.
5:55-
What does the 6th grade class to Braddock do over the next 10 years?
8:12 is making some sort of KKK reference. How wonderful. The SB will do what's right for SCSS and the surrounding area by waiting on sending any new students to LBSS. Hayfield has the seats now, which will be utilized by the SB. The anti Silverbrook crowd will need to accept facts.
I'm from Crosspointe but on the Halley side. I am not-anti Silverbrook but I am pro-SCSS. Either Newington Forest or the north part of Silverbrook (to include that section of Crosspointe) must be redistricted to LB this year. Option 3 keeps too many kids at SC and underutilizes LB.
9:56, Do you know splitting up the neighborhood would hurt the entire area? If part of Silverbrook is removed from South County that would damage the Silverbrook/Crosspointe community. If the School Board removes part of Silverbrook, they should remove all of it. But in reality this can not happen, Lake Braddock will not have the space. Silverbrook and Halley should remain at South County, or all of Fairfax Station should move out west (but the schools to the west will not have the space).
9:56 - It is a shame that more SCSS parents are not taking a stand about the overcrowding at SCSS. The school will remain at 117% and above for many years to come. The middle schoolers will stay on the 9:00 - 4:05 schedule. The halls and classes will be crowded, and competition for sports teams will be very high. Silverbrook and NF will refuse to go to Lake Braddock, and it will be years before a middle school is built. Why should the taxpayer pay for a middle school with so many empty seats at LB, H, etc. All the problems Hayfield used to have are now at SCSS.
Our neighborhood is already split. My area goes to Halley. Other parts of Crosspointe go to Silverbrook. North Silverbrook should go to LB
10:20, you don’t get it. Halley and Silverbrook are elementary schools; South County is a secondary/high school. Splitting up Silverbrook/Crosspointe will hurt the community in the long term. Yes, South County is overcapacity and students should be removed. But if you remove Silverbrook, the School Board should remove the entire Fairfax Station area. Option 2a is the best option.
I do get it. I am a graduate of a split feeder. My elementary school fed into 2 separate ms/hs. Split feeders aren't detrimental. Kids didn't have angst about not seeing friends who would go to the other school. Our mothers took us to eachother's houses and later on, we drove ourselves. Each of the choices were sound academically. You act like Lake Braddock is a death sentence when in reality it has a proven track record.
Silverbrook's selfishness is creating a bad impression of the Crosspointe association for the rest of the county.
Come on 10:33, there are many communities that are split. Why should you have special treatment? The entire Fairfax Station area goes to Woodson, Robinson, Lake Braddock and South County. Fairfax Station is already split, with many Fairfax Station students already attending Lake Braddock. I do agree that 2A is a good option. Why don't you ask the school board to go with 2A? If the Silverbrook community wanted it, the school board would give it to you.
10:52 are you comparing a city mailing address to a community such as Crosspointe? We both know that's an inane comparision.
Sacrificing the north end of Silverbrook doesn't make any sense. This would be the third different school for these kids - Hayfield, SCSS, and LBSS in the last 4 years.
I assume your kids wouldn't be affected by this change. Your ignorance clearly shows.
Since when is sending kids to Lake Braddock a sacrifice? It's a secondary school just like SC and Hayfield, it has an AP curriculum just like SC and Hayfield.
Not to criticize SC or Hayfield, but Lake Braddock SAT and other standardized test scores are significantly higher.
If North Silverbrook or Newington Forest gets redistricted, they would be changing schools as a nearly an entire grade not as individuals coming in knowing no one.
1:34 please send your kids to LB. You seem to love it.
My preference is to keep my kids at SCSS.
The Crosspointe HOA sent a statement to the SB, they stated the community of Crosspointe felt it would be wrong to split their community. The 1 person on this blog who is saying they reside in Crosspointe is one of only a few who feel that way about a potential split. The majority of Crosspointe residenent do not want a split. The split in FX Station that goes to Woodson asked to go to Woodson well over 25 years ago. They asked for the split, Crosspointe did not.
It's a shame that the needs of SC outweigh the desires of selfish Silverbrook.
Yes, it was so selfish of the Silverbrook residents to work for years to get SCSS built.
Yes, they are so selfish aren't they?
North Silverbrook residents are selfish AND are extremely whiny. Y'all don't see the Newington Forest residents acting as if they are entitled to attend a specific school.
We keep talking about the split of Silverbrook ES, but no one seems to care that this plan splits Lorton Station, Gunston, Halley, & evetually Laurel Hills ES! Every school on the border of SCSS and Hayfield will be a split feeder. Is this important? Why is there no outrage over the split of Halley?
Splitting the Silverbrook is simply nonsensical. As much as I hate to admit it, Option 1 or even 2A makes more sense. It's amazing that the Silverbrook community leads the way in solving problems, yet is brandished as "selfish".
No new split feeder schools need to be created. Implemenmt Option 1 or 2A. All the people complaining about Silverbrook are probably against Option 1 because it might actually affect thier own kids. The "selfish tag" is easily transferred.
1/18/2007 1:11 PM
"Sacrificing the north end of Silverbrook doesn't make any sense. This would be the third different school for these kids - Hayfield, SCSS, and LBSS in the last 4 years."
Lorton Station attended Lee High School until it was sent to SCSS two years ago, and will now be sent to Hayfield. Why then is it so bad for Silverbrook to go from Hayfield to SCSS to LBSS?
At the meeting at Silverbrook Elementary that was held between the 2 Town meetings, every speaker spoke out against Option 1 despite the fact that a lot of Crosspointe/Barrington GT kids already go to LB for their middle school education.
307
OMG. Option #1 makes split feeders out of LB and HF Middle schools. How is that ok at the same time you complain about SB ES being split? Also 2A makes a new split out of Halley. Where is the concern over that? I understand your concerns over 2B, but ... Option #1 better? sheeeeesh.
The no cost middle school does not mean building only. How will they pay the overhead and operating expenses? If this scheme goes through what about other areas in FX? The only thing transferrable for those kids is the teacher salaries and benefits which are done by ratio. How many Silverbrrok kids from the western barbell go to LB for GT?
I listened to the CIP testimony as well as boundaries. SB asks for a lot more than anyone else in this county. It took nerve to compare themselves to South Lakes - that had no schools nearby.
FCPS and everyone in the county should be happy if they only have to pay operating expenses. They should be paying fo the whole thing. It is in the CIP for good reason. The currrent situation dictates that it be moved up.
The small portion of Halley that will go to Hayfield will be corrected in the LHES boundary study. Gary did this so the small island will not create a problem in the future. He was planning ahead. Study 2A is the best of all options and should go ahead.
4:12 - No, I am not happy to pay operating expenses on a school that is not needed. No middle school while there are so many empty seats at nearby schools.
2A if fine, but Mason Neck should stay at SCSS. All of Halley should stay at SCSS until the LHES study is complete.
The current situation does NOT dictate an immediate need for a middle school. When LB and Hayfield are full AND SC is once again OC, then perhaps there will be a need.
Mason Neck should not stay at SCSS - they should have stayed at Hayfield during the last boundary change. I agree with 2A, since it does not create any additional split feeders. All of Halley and Silverbrook should stay at SCSS.
Keep the South in South County.
Watch what you say about Fairfax Station Secondary.
Watch what you say about Fairfax Station Secondary.
I have to laugh at all of these blog statements. It is amusing but very few comments really get the situation that is taking place. Should not the SB be questioned as well as Facilities? The system needs a bit of an overhaul, as do certain members of the SB.
BTW if you read the CIP the "South" part of the county includes other schools in other clusters. "SOUTH" does not ONLY MEAN Lorton Station and Mason Neck.
And you do? Don't see any evidence of that from your comments.
4:36
It takes years to build a school. We should not wait until the CIP says we need a school, we need to start now.
7:28 - As a taxpayer, I am not prepared to build a new school just because the people in the south county area want one. There is plenty of space in 4 schools nearby. I am not 4:36, but I am glad to see there are other people out there who are concerned about this too.
It's the attitudes like 7:28's that delayed extremely necessary renovations to Woodson and everyone else on the CIP list. FCPS is just lucky that one of the many ceiling tiles that fell over the years at Woodson didn't actually hit anyone. They would have been in for a nasty lawsuit.
The CIP has projected dates for a reason, ie ORDER OF IMPORTANCE. When LB and Hayfield are full, then SC has a legitimate case. Until then, absolutely not.
9:36, you forgot to include Mt. Vernon and West Potomac. It makes me sick to think these schools sit empty and the school board members continue to give into the demands of other communities, just because they do not want to go to these schools. Use the available seats on the east side first.
and seats on the west side. This is not just an east side issue. LB has seats. Use them.
Hayfield and Lake Braddock have about the same number of seats. They both need to be used.
Absolutely not. The seats at Hayfiled clearly outnumber any available at LB. Us ethe available seatrs to the east first.
Absolutely use them at LB. It is ridiclous that anyone wants the SB to except an option that leaves SCSS at 117% capacity. If you expect people to be ok with going to Hayfield then you need to realize someone from the west needs to goto LB.
F&P and McKibbon predict that Hayfield and Lake Braddock will have 750-800 empty seats in the AY 2011-12 -- when next year's rising Freshmen will be seniors. Hayfield has more seats today, but other recent boundary changes are still feeding Hayfield and those seats are being consumed. The opposite is happening at Lake Braddock. LB has few seats now but more are opening up.
The plan F&P submited uses @500+ of the seats at Hayfield, but ZERO of the seats in Lake Braddock. The board should plan now to use those seats that are opening up in the future and not waste time on another study two years from now.
The board can relook this again when the Middle School is closer to completion (@2015).
It is not a "what's good for Hayfield must be good for LBSS" scenario. Look at the LBSS MS seats, just not there. No one should be sent there based upon what might be. Hayfield could very well end up like a Mt. Vernon without additional students. You all are full of such lovely nastiness that you have lost perspective on this. Again you just love to blame Silverbrook for all this and you so want them out to LBSS because you think their civic activism should be punished in the form of sending them to LBSS. If it wasn't for the activism and organization of SB parents Hayfield would be at 5300 students and you would still be waiting on the school in SC for capacity relieft. Now you tell me why a community that is no more than 1.8 miles from secondary school should go to another school that is 7-8 miles away and has a MS that is full to capacity.
Tell me Mr. Reed and those of you from LS who are dragging this issue and this community through the mud why you would send and split a community to LBSS?
I think most of the bloggers who know that they are remaining at SC, don't care who gets sent to LB as long as SOME are sent to LB. Silverbrook people should be fighting against Newington Forest staying instead of fighting your fellow Crosspointers who go to Halley and thus SC.
to 5:23
a community 1.8 miles away would go to a school 7 + miles because you are on the border. Perhaps they should use boats and send Halley across the Occuquan - oops that's Prince William. School boundaries are not done with circles where everyone is within the radius.
If anyone should be put on boats its the "chosen ones" from Mason Neck. They are on the water for goodness sakes.
You missed the point 10:33. People on the Fairfax County/PW border are much further south than North Silverbrook. There is no other option other than SC. Silverbrook OTOH has Lake Braddock.
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The MS numbers at LBSS are a problem for sure. Some oof this will be fixed over time, but it also more full because of the GTC.
Bottom line though is that LB and HF are both predicted to have similar amount of space available for the incoming classes. There are solutions that can use the space effectively and relieve oc at SCSS.
Those of you on the north border are all at risk of moving to another school just like Lorton Station, Halley, and Gunston will have kids move to the east. It is not fair and it really sucks, but until we look at more attendence areas it is reality.
Keep working on a MS. I think that the anomosity built up between MN and SB will severely damage that effort. You need both communities to make that happen. If one goes, the other could sabotage the effort.
This is once again all about Silverbrook.Why doesn't anyone ever suggest Newington Forest as the school to be redisticted to Lake Braddock?
This is once again all about Silverbrook.Why doesn't anyone ever suggest Newington Forest as the school to be redisticted to Lake Braddock?
MN is the boondocks - home of a federal burro farm. Gunston is overcrowded and should lose it current Hayfield group when LH opens. Gunston is a really small school on a septic system that is 30%+ overcapacity. Multiple generations of families have lived on The Neck. Parents and grandparents were bussed to Hayfield. To them Hayfield was/is more than an inadequate solution for a school serving a new development or HOA. It was their school long before Silverbrook existed and for this group to request SC is meaningful.
Newington Forest at LB would be a circle around the WS attendance area. Silly. Silverbrook protrudes into the Sangster area which is LB. The portion of SB suggested for LB would not ever logically be considered for LH,LS, Saratoga or boundary changes with or back to Lee/Hayfield given any other possible option.
If NF is sent to LB instead of arbitrarily dividing Silverbrook into the haves and have-nots, then SC will be even closer to capacity. NF kids won't be yanked away from their lifetime friends as they would all be going to Lake Braddock together.
I think many people have suggested Newington Forest to Lake Braddock. There are many supporters of 2A on this blog.
The problem with 2B is that it includes the homes on Silverline Road. Had F&P been a little more politically astute they would have taken out a different portion of the Silverbrook ES area. The School Board members are politicians and I suspect they will be smarter. They should send NF or a part of Silverbrook that does not have a School Board candidate in it.
Some of Silverbrook should go to Sangster when the LHES study is conducted.
All of the arguments about "lifetime friends" and split feeders is important. However there will be a new ES open in 2009 and the boundaries for many of the Elementary schools in the area will be changed -- some drastically. Too bad we didn't set those boundaries before this study.
Well, perhaps Liz should have chosen a house on the nicer side of Crosspointe.
She did.
Who said she was a candidate?
I just assumed she would be one. Not sure if she is or not.
She will never be a successful candidate if she doesn't start looking beyond her gated community and see what is best for the entire district.
When the LHES boundary is set Silverbrook’s student population will go way down. Moving part of Silverbrook to Sangster is not a good idea. All the communities that feed into Silverbrook are across the street from the school, why on earth would the school board bus elementary kids to Sangster, too far. I’m sure all the boundaries will be set back, so students can go to a school closer to their home. I’m pretty sure Gunston will also be included in the study.
Silverbrook to Halley? They are both in Crosspointe. Then those former Silverbrookers can go to SC and the rest of Silverbrook can go to LB.
There will lots of moves when LHES study is done. I think that they should include Lorton Station, Gunston, Halley, NF, Silverbrook, and Sangster when they do that study. Those that end up at Sangster should get to go to LB.
It's bad enough to ship our kids to Burke for 7-12. Now you Lorton people want to pull us out of our local elementary in our own subdivision?
6:00 PM, what is best for the Springfield District ? Curious minds want to know.
1. What's good for all FCPS Districts is that students shouldn't go to overcrowded schools. If that means redistricting a school to a different hs such as Silverbrook to LB, then so be it. It benefits both LB and SC to have Silverbrook get redistricted to LB
Moving the MS up on the CIP.
I know Dan Stork is not good for any of the communities he represents. He focuses on the Mason Neck area only. He should be voted out of office. I would support/vote for Liz. She will help out all communities, not just one. It is about time we vote Dan Stork out of office; he has not looked beyond Mason Neck and will not do what is best for the entire district. Vote Dan out of office and vote for Liz.
Dan is the Mt Vernon District. If Liz runs she will be Springfield.
Dan is pretty open minded and thoughtful for a Democrat.
and Dan is now the school board Chair. You should be happy becausue he will fight for MN to be at SCSS and a new Middle school.
What about Lorton Valley will he fight for them? For Lorton Station? Why Mason Neck? 100 kids from MN are needier thant LV students who live just 1.1 miles from SCSS? Are these kids better behaved on the bus and is that the great reason they get to go Hayfield?
He will fight for them both. Lorton Valley and MN should both go SCSS. For there to be room LBSS will need to be used. LB and HF are both expected to have over 750 seats available for the rising Freshmen so the board should plan to use them.
He can't have both in the current boundary. LBSS will not be opened up. So deal with the now not the future. LV or MN that is the question?
Sure he can. More importantly the whole county can.
We are not fixing this problem all in one year. It will be fixed over the next six years at the rising 7th graders go to school.
He can't fix the entire problem all with Hayfield anyway. The question is how much to HF and how much to LB and how fast? HF and LB can and should take @500 students from SCSS. Both have over 750 seats available to the rising 9th graders.
Hayfield can take them right away, but it is best for the students if it is limited to rising 7-8-9 next year. LB could take rising 7, maybe 7-8.
The question is SB or NF to LBSS. MV and MN should both go to SCSS.
MN should never have left Hayfield. It's a real shame it's come to this.
No the question of fairness and logic is about MN and Lorton Valley. The seats at LBSS are projected. The actual seats are at Hayfield. SC needs relief NOW. MN or LV that is the question.
Anything in the future is projected. F&P knows how many 6th graders are in the current LB feeders. They know the past proportions of 6th grade enrollments to the corresponding 7th grade enrollments. They know the numbers of kids entering FCPS and leaving FCPS for each grade level.
Anything in the future is projected. F&P knows how many 6th graders are in the current LB feeders. They know the past proportions of 6th grade enrollments to the corresponding 7th grade enrollments. They know the numbers of kids entering FCPS and leaving FCPS for each grade level.
If Mason neck and/or Lorton station go Hayfield then Silverbrook or Newington Forest should go to Lake Braddock now. What is about the kids to the East having to solve the crowding issue and not the West. Is the western area better. It will be bad enough that the area redistricted to Hayfield will not want to be at Hayfield, how do you think they feel being kicked out while others area affored the courtesy of coming up with an alternative to be kicked out. I think if they can wait for a move of the western boundary they can weight on the eastern side as well.
Come on 12:53, the seats at Hayfield AND Lake Braddock (and SCSS for that matter) are projected -- we are talking future for god's sake. The decision is about where do future HS and MS students go. For that we have to project, we have to guess, we have to use the information available to make a reasonable estimates. Look beyond your nose.
Heck, this year Hayfield has over 900 seats empty. That does not mean you can send 900 kids there -- you have to look at the future. Previous boundary changes are still phasing in more students and will for another four years.
F&P has a history of guessing low for sure (HF has 150 more than projected and LB has 30 more than projected), so I would certainly not consider pushing HF or LB to the limit. Sending @400-500 over the next 6 years leaves a buffer of @ 250 seats at both schools and almost no buffer at SCSS.
2:43
Just nailed it all down. This is about planning for the projected future. If we dont plan for the future we end up having to do this every other year. Start using Lake Braddock now!. Move the GT center from Lake Braddock or reconfigure the GT space so that the building at LBSS can be better utilized.
2A is still the best way to go.
2A or 2B, who cares? Just use the seats at LB!
Option 2A is the best choice. No amendments.
Option 3 with an amendment. This is what you will see.
Option 3 with a NF to LB amendment is the best for all 3 schools.
LB is a nonissue. No middle school seats. It will be a wait and see about LBSS --Look for larger boundary study in the future. Predicting amendment for Option 3.
So what's your prediction, 5:58?
I think Silverbrook will be thrown on the hotseat due to the nastiness of everyone on this blog!
I predict the staff proposal will go through , but they will amend it to switch out MN and Lorton Valley. Too bad, as MN and Lorton Valley should both go to SCSS. This board will punt to the next board for the rest of the solution.
5:58
The good news is at least now LB and SB are just saying that LB has no MS seats. They had been saying no seats at all.
LB can be reconfigured without too much trouble. The GTC could be scaled back or removed also. A solution is possible.
If the GTC is removed from Lake Braddock, where should they put it? Irving? What other school out west has a GTC?
Liberty, Frost and Twain are the closest GTCs. All are close to capacity.Irving doesn't have room. LB HAS the GTC room plus room for Silverbrookers.
Why can't the GTC be moved to the high school portion of Lake Braddock since there are many extra classrooms there and open up more middle school seats. Middle and high school students are mixed at SCSS, and parents are doing whatever they can to keep their kids there.
8:27, It could be moved internal to LB without much problem. I have confidence in the administration and parent there - they are good folk. The super also help by reducing the number of kids that are allowed into it.
It would help if all of the MS GTC students just stayed for HS (if they don't go to TJ). They are already little Bruins -- they can grow into Big Bruins. If parents don't like it they can have their kids stay at their Base Middle school. Of course LB might have a great "It's Academic" team.
Besides, if we continue to count the GTC as part of the MS, then the LB HS will always be undercapacity -- it will never have enough rising 9th graders. The capacity for MS, GTC, and HS should be looked at independenly at LB.
Why is it okay to have a disproportionate number of MSers at LB as compared to LB and not the same at Hayfield? It would have been more acceptable to a lot more families to go to H or LB for 2 years and then go to SC for 9-12.
The propotions of middle schoolers at LB is skewed by the GT center. Those kids go back to the home school and only go to LB by choice. I believe the number of families at all three schools would not find it acceptable to have students going to Hayfield and LB for only two years then leave to SCSS. This issue is not just about the students at SCSS. Option 1 is bad for students at all three schools, and experts in the education field would tell you that it would not be good for your kids. Don't you want the best for your kids?
But the kids who are in LB due to the boundaries have to deal with their classmates going back to their base schools. Somehow they deal.
What's best for my kid is not to be in an overcrowded school.
OC schools should not happen. There are 2300 empty seats in the east. How can that be?
Those 2300 empty seats will stay empty. The communities on the east side refuse to go to the schools on the east side. What will happen, students from South County will be sent to Lake Braddock, and that school will get OC, along with the surrounding schools. Schools on the east side will continue to have empty seats.
Perhaps there is just not enough population in Alexandria. Either Edison, West Potomac,or MV should be closed and those stuents redistricted to the remaining 2 PLUS Hayfield and Lee.
If the F&P reccomendation goes through Hayfield will seats be used to capacity. Lake Braddock & Mount Vernon will still be empty.
There are 750 seats available to rising Freshmen at Lake Braddock. Will we use them??? We are planning on using the ones at Hayfield.
So FCPS should close newly renovated Mt. Vernon, West Potomac, or Edison? What happens when the schools on the west side are full, and the schools on the east side are closed? Build the middle school? I’m sure the residents who pay taxes will like that.
Let's combine Hayfield and South County areas as they used to be. South County could be a middle school that serves the entire Hayfield and SC area. Hayfield High School could be the corresponding hs that serves Hayfield and SC area. No artificial division of students, no worry about rivalries.
9:29 that is a good idea, but will never happen.
It's a terrible idea. The students of South County have nothing in common with the teens of Hayfield.
Years ago when HF was way OC there was discussion of building a MS and making HF a High School. However, that would be a High School of monster size and the busses would be passing each other in large numbers. Way too many resources (time and money) spent on transportation in an area that has serious transportation problems.
The students in SC and HF have lots in common, but it is better for the county if each area is served by its own pyramid.
It all comes down to using the available space. Yes West Potomac and Mt. Vernon should have been included, but they were not. If that wasn't bad enough, now it looks like F&P and the SB are not even using Lake Braddock!! I like option 2A, but 2B is just as good. We should at least use the empty space in the schools that were included in the study. Delay will mean another boundary study. Does anyone know how much these boundary studies cost?
It all comes down to using the available space. Yes West Potomac and Mt. Vernon should have been included, but they were not. If that wasn't bad enough, now it looks like F&P and the SB are not even using Lake Braddock!! I like option 2A, but 2B is just as good. We should at least use the empty space in the schools that were included in the study. Delay will mean another boundary study. Does anyone know how much these boundary studies cost?
How big would a combined HF/SC class make. I'm sure it's under 10000 per class.
I mean 1000.
You could combine Lake Braddock and SC and do the same thing and get the same bad result.
Why would that be a bad result? The SC area has a historic relationship with Hayfield.
West Potomac? How the heck would West Potomac help in relieving South County. I don't get. Some of you bloggers need to look at a map.
Lets pretend we just jump forward two years from now after the School board adopted the recommendation. Facilities projections 5 years in the year 2014 has Hayfield at 200 seats undercapacity, Lake Bradddock at 900 seats under capacity. What do you think the folks at Newington Station and Silverbrook will say then? What will the Laurel hill folks say?
They will say, why move now? The Middle School opens in 2015.
Look at all of the pyramids surrounding LBSS. They will be oc. By 2015 the MS will be almost complete and we will go there.
Why would all the pyramids surrounding LB be oc? According to the CIP they too are projected to decrease.
1:02
The relationship between SC and HF is historic for sure. That "area" went to HF for years until it was so built up it would not fit ... and then ten years later they built a school.
1) There is not enough room at HF to absorb the OC at SCSS no matter how you attempt to arrange it. If you made SCSS a Middle School, both SC and HF would be OC.
2) F&P would have busses hauling 7-8 from the HF area out to SC and 9-12 from SC to HF. Expensive and time consuming.
So you spend lots of time and money and create two OC schools while LBSS creates 800+ empty seats. So what if they have a history.
1:15,
You asked what will they say. That is what they will say ...
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